Cold start up problem

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Cold start up problem

BeagleRock
Hello all, my truck runs pretty good  when warm however after sitting awhile and in this case almost 2 weeks it will start right up. The choke seems to be working well as it quickly climbs to 1500 rpm's and then 5-10 seconds later it dies. It will do this repeatedly or until I feather the throttle for approximately 30-40 seconds then I can let it idle erratically. Then after about 5 minutes I feel comfortable to actually drive it.
 I feel like it's a choke problem but I don't know for sure which is why I'm here to ask the experts. Thanks guys & gals.
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Cold start up problem

BeagleRock
One more thing ,I purchased the rubber strip that screws to the front of the firewall to seal the hood from water and debris, or so I thought .It still has water on the breather housing after every rain  
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Cold start up problem

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by BeagleRock
First, did you put the cowl seal on as described here?  It has to be glued to the firewall or it'll leak behind.  Underhood/Cowl Seal.

As for the choke, you may have the choke pull-down pulling the choke open too much.  Adjustment procedures are on Page 28 here (Fuel Systems/1985-86 Fuel System Adjustments).  And you will note that the Performance Symptom on that page includes stalling for too much pull-down.

However, I do not know what the pull-down specs are for your truck.  But, there are several ways you can test this theory.  One is to pull the air cleaner, start the truck, and watch the choke.  If I'm right the choke will pull open about the time the engine begins to stall.

Another way to test it is to pull the vacuum hose off the pull-down, plug the hose, and start the truck.  If it doesn't die, or doesn't die the same way, then you've proven the pull-down is the problem.

In that case, turn the adjusting screw clockwise a turn or two and see if the symptoms change.  But keep track of the number of turns so you can put it back if it doesn't help.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Cold start up problem

BeagleRock
No I didn't Gary, I did put a bead of RTV down the top of it after the first rain storm and found alot of water on the breather housing. Guess I'll do the glue thing sooner than later because it gets the carb wet.
 As for the choke pull off its working great and yes it does open immediately after the engine starts .perhaps 1/4" is too much of an opening, another one I can do Saturday morning!!! Thanks for the info for the novice that is me :)
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Cold start up problem

Gary Lewis
Administrator
RTV doesn't stick well.  I tried it and it didn't work.  And applying it after installation is worse.  The seal needs to be glued to the cowl, and Black Jack does a good job of that.  But now you have to get the RTV off.  

Good luck on the choke pull-down.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Cold start up problem

BeagleRock
Fortunately I just layer a small bead across the top of the cowl not really sticking to anything per say .
 As for the choke I'm thinking you're spot on! We'll see Saturday morning if the weather co-operate's .
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Cold start up problem

Gary Lewis
Administrator
It is supposed to be 70 degrees on Saturday.  I'm winterizing the boat that day.  Should be a good one down your way as well.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Cold start up problem

grumpin
Same problem on my cowl seal, guess I'll be gluing it on tomorrow!
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6-Sold
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 GMC Sierra SLE K1500 350 4L60E
Arizona
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Re: Cold start up problem

Steve83
Banned User
In reply to this post by BeagleRock
BeagleRock wrote
The choke seems to be working well as it quickly climbs to 1500 rpm's and then 5-10 seconds later it dies. It will do this repeatedly or until I feather the throttle for approximately 30-40 seconds then I can let it idle erratically. ...  I feel like it's a choke problem...
In cold weather with a carb, you're supposed to press the gas pedal at least 1/2 way & release before cranking.  That's what allows the throttle to get onto the choke cam, and the choke to close.  It also primes the manifold with gas (via the accelerator pump).
BeagleRock wrote
...the rubber strip that screws to the front of the firewall to seal the hood from water and debris, or so I thought .It still has water on the breather housing after every rain
That strip is to reduce the engine heat & fumes being sucked into the HVAC intake, under the wiper arms.  It has nothing to do with water in the engine bay, which blows there from underneath as you drive in rain, anyway.

Water on the air filter cover doesn't hurt anything (assuming the wing bolt is tightened correctly).  If it bothers you, try drying it AFTER you park the truck, and see if more appears there the next morning.
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Re: Cold start up problem

BeagleRock
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Indeed! I'd love 60 as opposed to this past week
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Cold start up problem

BeagleRock
In reply to this post by Steve83
Yes I press the gas pedal to get some fuel in as well as engagement of the choke.
 Did you read the information about the cowl somewhere, because everyone including a couple of my old buddies at the Ford dealership told me to buy the cowl from LMC to stop the water from pooling up on the breather housing .Also mine has some sort of round peice that has 2 vacuum nipples that water easily gets past and into the carburetor itself. One nipple goes to a TAD solenoid the other goes to the hot air intake diaphram that doesn't work .
 Thanks for responding in any case as my old buddies are very reluctant to help an old friend out these days .Want paid like an attorney lol
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Cold start up problem

Steve83
Banned User
BeagleRock wrote
Did you read the information about the cowl somewhere...
I don't remember where I learned it - maybe a TSB or service manual; maybe one of the Ford classes I attended when I worked at the dealership...  I just try to remember the info; not necessarily the source.
BeagleRock wrote
Also mine has some sort of round peice that has 2 vacuum nipples that water easily gets past and into the carburetor itself.
Then seal around it, or (if it's non-functional anyway), remove it & tape up the holes.  But that vacuum switch should be OUTside the filter, so water that gets past it should go away from the carb throat.

Post pics.
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Re: Cold start up problem

BeagleRock
Ok, next good rain I'll take some pics to show outside and inside of the breather housing.
Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.
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Re: Cold start up problem

Steve83
Banned User
I was mulling this over today as I was putting the engine back into a '95 Bronco, and I might NOT have read anything about that cowl strip...  I might have reverse-engineered it.

Since it's also used on trucks with EFI (which are not affected by rain falling on top of them), it can't be for rain.

Since it's not designed to keep things out (the lip faces the wrong way), it's not for that at all.

Since it's MUCH wider than the air filter, and since not all air filters are back that far, or centered on the cowl, it can't have anything to do with the air filter.

Since it's exactly the same width as the HVAC intake slots/holes in the wiper valance, that has to be its purpose: to keep engine fumes from blowing out the back of the hood & being sucked into the HVAC/cabin.  The strip is just long enough to make the fumes move outward past those holes, and then blow up the w/s over the roof, or around the doors.

But I'm still interested to see the water problem you're having, and the vacuum switch in the air cleaner cover.
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Re: Cold start up problem

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Perhaps it was originally designed to keep fumes out of the HVAC.  But it does work to keep water out of the engine compartment, or at least off things in the center of it.

When I got Big Blue it had a really bad cowl seal and corrosion everywhere.  Water had been pooling on the aluminum intake and corroding it.  The aluminum Eddy carb was corroded.  And many other things were as well.

I cleaned most of the things, including the carb and some of the intake.  And then installed a cowl seal using garage door weatherstripping, as shown in the above link.  No more corrosion, and the truck sits out.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Cold start up problem

BeagleRock
In reply to this post by Steve83

Ok sounds good, it's supposed to rain Wednesday and I work until 6 sometimes 7:00PM it will be dark by the time I get home. Maybe I'll just run a garden hose over 😉

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On Saturday, October 20, 2018 Steve83 [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I was mulling this over today as I was putting the engine back into a '95 Bronco, and I might NOT have read anything about that cowl strip...  I might have reverse-engineered it.

Since it's also used on trucks with EFI (which are not affected by rain falling on top of them), it can't be for rain.

Since it's not designed to keep things out (the lip faces the wrong way), it's not for that at all.

Since it's MUCH wider than the air filter, and since not all air filters are back that far, or centered on the cowl, it can't have anything to do with the air filter.

Since it's exactly the same width as the HVAC intake slots/holes in the wiper valance, that has to be its purpose: to keep engine fumes from blowing out the back of the hood & being sucked into the HVAC/cabin.

But I'm still interested to see the water problem you're having, and the vacuum switch in the air cleaner cover.
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Beaglerock/83f150 351W C6 Transmission 2 wheel drive.