C6 to T19 conversions questions.

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
9 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

C6 to T19 conversions questions.

IDIBronco
So my bronco has already had the IDI swapped into it with a c6 and I am currently working out the details for what a manual transmission swap will require.  I am tracking down parts and trying to determine what parts I actually already have.  This isn't a swap that needs to take place anytime soon, but I am hoping to have everything ready and in place so I can make the swap over the course of a weekend.

I picked up a t19 4x4 transmission with IDI specific bellhousing, clutch, flywheel, and fork a while back for a song and intend to rebuild it (since it is so simple to do) before swapping it into the bronco.  What I am not sure about is what pedal set for a hydraulic clutch looks like compared to the linkage variety.  I see pedal sets available on eBay, but most all of them do not show for what system they are made.  Also, is there an easy way to identify on the bellhousing/fork what setup I have?  Did the IDI bellhousings even come in both variations?  Are the parts the same for both styles i.e. interchangeable to work with the linkage or hydraulic?  I prefer hydraulic style clutch systems, but the clutch slave cylinders that are inside the bellhousing and around the input shaft are a dumb design.  Fortunately I do not think those were ever used with the T19.  I have been told the overall length of the C6 and T19 setups are the same so no driveshaft modifications should be needed.  Anyone able to verify this?

I have a parts truck (1991, f250, 5.8, 4x4, ZF) I can rob parts from, but I think that the pedal set shouldn't interchange with the one from the 85 bronco.  

Parts I think I have already...

T19 with 4x4 extension housing
Crossmember (same one one C6 should be able to be used?)
Clutch, pressure plate, flywheel (all used and probably will be installed and used at least for testing purposes)
I have a PTO that came with the transmission, but no idea what I would power with it yet.
matching driveshaft from PTO (used to run a hydraulic pump of some sort before)

Parts I need...

Pedal set for hydraulic clutch
clutch master
clutch slave
clutch hydraulic line
possibly a shifter fork for hydraulic clutch if mine is wrong
eventually the steering column cover from a manual transmission truck

Basically I would just like to hear from anyone who has done a C6 to T19 swap in one of these trucks.  I am sure I will have specific questions as the project nears and I really start to look for parts.

1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C6 to T19 conversions questions.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I've not done a C6/T18 swap, but I did a C6/ZF5 swap.  And the driveshafts did work, so I'd bet they will on a T18.

And, the diesel never came with a mechanical clutch linkage.  Nor did the 460's.  They came out in '83 and were the first to use hydraulic linkage, with the rest of the engines following suit in '84.  So you should be good with what you have.

As for the pedal assembly, it does have to be from a Bullnose.

But, what are you going to use the Bronco for?  If highway use I'd think a ZF5 would be a better choice due to the OD.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C6 to T19 conversions questions.

IDIBronco
I do not have the ZF for the swap.  The one in my donor truck is a small block ford pattern, non removable bellhousing style.  I was able to pick up the IDI T19 for $75 with clutch and flywheel, and the PTO came out of a different truck I parted out a while back.  I figure I will be into this swap maybe $200 dollars if I get lucky turning up the few parts I need yet.  T19s are simple (cheap) transmissions to take apart and rebuild.

The ZF isn't what I would call inexpensive and around this area they are pretty hard to turn up.  When you do find one people think that they are worth more then I am willing to spend.  

As far as usage, I live in a very rural area.  If I go on a long trip somewhere, we take my wife's nice car (typically because she doesn't have the same respect for a good beater vehicle and the bronco is a lot of work away from "nice").  I have a 4 mile commute to work, and that only happens the days I actually have to go there instead of work from the shop at my house and am not out of town.  I seldom rack up more than 5000 miles on one of my vehicles in a year.  It really boils down to my preference for a stick shift over an automatic.  I like the idea of an overdrive, but for the price to jump to a ZF I just do not think it is a good option for me.  Additionally, with this bronco's gearing it is already like most the other trucks I have had when in overdrive (3:55 vs 4:10).  The other 3:55 geared trucks I've had always seemed that 5th gear on anything but flat road was about pointless.  Granted they had small blocks, which is not a fair comparison to the IDI.  Plus, I have done a long road trip with the bronco before as is and got 21MPG average (calculated from GPS odometer, gas station to gas station fillups full).  That was with the bronco loaded with spare parts and a light foot down 2 lane roads (55MPH tops).  I DEFINITELY have had no complaints on fuel economy of this bronco compared to other trucks, or broncos I have had.  Even when I drive it with no regard for economy I typically get better than 16MPG.

I suppose I could hold out for a ZF and plan to change the diff gears out for 4:10 to get some more trailer towing enjoyment, but I can probably get better bang for my buck looking for the 460 version of the T19 (allegedly from 83-86 F250s) that got the 6.32 to 1 first gear to do the same thing and not change the diff gears.

Good info.

https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transmissions/manual/t18-t19/
   

Is there a way to visibly determine if a bullnose pedal set is for a hydraulic clutch?  The difference I would think is the location of where the master or linkage hooks to the pedal arm.    
1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C6 to T19 conversions questions.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
If you are happy w/o OD then stick w/the T19.  I paid $500 for my ZF and then put $1000 in a rebuild, which had to be done by a pro due to the special tools needed.

However, on the 6.32 1st on the T19, you might want to peruse this thread: http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/No-headaches-6-9-Diesel-td9311i20.html.  Apparently not all of the T19's got the low ratio.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C6 to T19 conversions questions.

Steve83
Banned User
In reply to this post by IDIBronco
IDIBronco wrote
What I am not sure about is what pedal set for a hydraulic clutch looks like compared to the linkage variety.
This album shows & explains a lot of those differences:

IDIBronco wrote
...no driveshaft modifications should be needed.  Anyone able to verify this?
IDIBronco wrote
Crossmember (same one one C6 should be able to be used?)
Clean & read the applications stamped into the metal.

IDIBronco wrote
I have a PTO that came with the transmission, but no idea what I would power with it yet.
matching driveshaft from PTO (used to run a hydraulic pump of some sort before)
A hydraulic pump to power the transformer arms & legs.
A generator
A mechanical PTO winch, or a rear PTO for your bushhog...
IDIBronco wrote
clutch master
clutch slave
clutch hydraulic line
You can sometimes buy those as an assembly, for the more-common applications.
IDIBronco wrote
possibly a shifter fork for hydraulic clutch
That would be the CLUTCH fork - the shifter forks are inside the transmission.
IDIBronco wrote
...steering column cover from a manual transmission truck
That only applies to '92-up columns.  On these older ones, you have to change the whole column to get the functions you want, and there are 4:

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C6 to T19 conversions questions.

IDIBronco
Once again why I appreciate Steve83.  

You always have information backed with documentation.
1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C6 to T19 conversions questions.

IDIBronco
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
The information in that thread makes me think I need to dig my t19 out of storage and try to see what I actually got.
1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C6 to T19 conversions questions.

IDIBronco
In reply to this post by IDIBronco
Does anyone know if the steering column from a 1991 F250 with manual transmission will swap out with a bullnose auto column?  I find it pretty unlikely.  Thought I might ask while I was thinking about it before starting to decide what parts will leave with the parts truck.
1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C6 to T19 conversions questions.

Ford F834
Administrator
In reply to this post by IDIBronco
I’m late to the party... but I can answer that yes, a 87-91 bricknose steering column will fit and work in a Bullnose. I did a C6 to ZF swap on an IDI but the T19 should be almost identical. Try to get the Bullnose master cylinder. The mounting holes will match the little divots marked on the firewall if yours has the stamping shadow for the hydraulic clutch cylinder. The later ones are offset and use a different hose (ZF). You should be fine if you source T19 parts. My issue was I wish I was using T19 hydraulics for the ZF install on a Bullnose. The manual clutch pedal has a flat slot that mates with the actuating arm. The hydraulic one has a splines similar to a windshield wiper arm. The pedal boxes on cruise control trucks have a couple more threaded holes and a tiny steel bracket that is missing on non-cruise pedal boxes. If you have cruise and want to keep it, look for the clutch cruise interrupt switch when you are looking for pedal boxes. It’s fairly uncommon to find. Don’t forget you will have to bridge the C6 park switch connector under the truck or the engine won’t start.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2