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Big Blue's Transformation

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Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

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Mid-day report: The D60 is loaded in Blue for its trip to Boomer's garage on Thursday. And cleaning of the shop and parts has started. Most of the tools have been put away, the parts washer is up to temp, the floor's been swept once but needs it a few more times, etc.

Here's a few shots of the loading. First, I have the axle on the shop crane lengthwise thinking I'd have to put it in at an angle. But, as you'll see in the next pic, it can go side-to-side, which would have made for an easier connection on the crane.

Here's the axle chained to the rear and strapped to the front, and sitting on the pallet:

Last, here 'tis with the tonneau closed as it is supposed to rain on Thursday. However, I have the vent capped and the ends of the axle taped up, just in case.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

1986F150Six

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

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Ready to go!

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Just another layer of the onion..

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Not entirely surprisingly This Old Tony popped up on my YouTube feed today.

Single pointing internal acme threads.
Weird how this stuff happens ....

https://youtu.be/11pcIJN1Gd8

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

Yep, it is ready! And we almost have enough onion layers to have a Bloomin' Onion.

Jim - That's a funny video. Cool. And it shows why I didn't want to attempt that.

I did get all of the parts clean save for the spindles and hubs/rotors. And I got the ball joints out of one knuckle. Had to make a new 3" "receiver" for my ball joint press as well as find some big washers as spacers to push with. Maybe I need to make a spacer as a pusher? I'm not too impressed with the Harbor Freight press kit as so far I've had to make a part or improvise one on every vehicle.

Maybe tomorrow I'll get the hubs and spindles clean and take the rotors in to be turned.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

Got more done today, inc:

Pulled the wheel bearings and races out of the hubs, removed a can-worth of awful grease, and then washed the hubs

Pressed out the ball joints on the 2nd knuckle, and washed both knuckles

Measured the ball joints for my search, and discovered that Vernon had sent the right lower units.

Oh, and I pressed the needle bearings out of the spindles. Yes, pressed them out. See below.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

We spent the morning in T-Town. Janey had an eye checkup and got a good report. Then to breakfast and then to Utica Square, where she shopped and I sat at Starbucks and worked on my parts list of u-joints, ball joints, tie rod ends, and bearings to order. (See the spreadsheet in Post #1, which always reflects where I am with the planning.)

And along the way I found that Moog has a steering damper kit for the '95 F350. And that got me to wondering about installing a damper. What are your thoughts?

Then we went to Boom's Garage and dropped off the D60. Here's a pic of Chris, with the D60 in the foreground, and the Land Rover he's working on for a customer. He figures it'll be 2 - 3 weeks on the D60 rebuild, and it is a complete rebuild on the diff, inc all new bearings, seals, and gears plus the locker. And, it'll carry a warranty.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis wrote

.... And along the way I found that Moog has a steering damper kit for the '95 F350. And that got me to wondering about installing a damper. What are your thoughts?....

I've generally heard that steering dampers only mask other problems (and they don't always even do that well). So I've never been a huge proponent. I can't say for sure that I've never owned a vehicle that didn't have a factory damper, but can't think of one that's had one and I know I've never put one on a vehicle.

I guess I could see some potential benefit to it if you were running really big tires or something. But with essentially stock size F-250/F-350 tires and all new steering linkage I don't think you'll need it.

Bob
Sorry, no '80 - '86 Ford trucks
"Oswald": 1997 F-250HD crew cab short box, 460, E4OD, 4.10 gears
"Pluto": 1971 Bronco, 302, NV3550 5 speed, Atlas 4.3:1 transfer case, 33" tires
"the motorhome": 2015 E-450-based 28' class C motorhome, 6.8L V-10
"the Dodge": 2007 Dodge 2500, 6.7L Cummins

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

I'm not sure what you meant by "I can't say for sure that I've never owned a vehicle that didn't have a factory damper, but can't think of one that's had one and I know I've never put one on a vehicle." Is there maybe one too many negatives? Did you mean to say "I can't say for sure that I've never owned a vehicle that had a factory damper...."?

Otherwise, I think we are in agreement that they mask the problems, and with all new components I shouldn't have any thereof.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

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In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

I've only ever used a steering damper on a motorcycle.

I suppose anything with a frame, steering angle, unsprung weight and a given amount of adhesion that is moving over a surface, rough or smooth will have resonance at some speed.

Sometimes you can push through it and it goes away. Sometimes it pushes back and gets more violent.

Anyway, a steering damper lowers the frequency of the system so smooth inputs are accommodated and quick spikes are not able to effect it. But it also feels heavier, or slower.

Think of it like a smoothing capacitor.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Nothing Special

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

I'm not sure what you meant by "I can't say for sure that I've never owned a vehicle that didn't have a factory damper, but can't think of one that's had one and I know I've never put one on a vehicle." Is there maybe one too many negatives? Did you mean to say "I can't say for sure that I've never owned a vehicle that had a factory damper...."?

Sorry. I might have owned a vehicle with a damper from the factory. But as far as I can remember I have not.

Is that less bad?

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Administrator

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Jim - I like that analogy. In fact, as I think about it I think it is the perfect analogy.

I think we've discussed it but in graduate school, which I didn't finish, I had a class called Parallel Systems. There is an excellent parallel between mechanical and electrical, as well as pneumatic, systems. Anyway, what you said makes sense to me.

But, what are your thoughts about having one for my purposes? Or, by saying "resonance at some speed" are you implying that since I won't have much speed when I hit bumps I probably won't have problems?

Bob - Yes, that makes more sense, and is what I thought. Thanks for the clarification.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

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I doubt you'll need one and you can always add it.

It is always best to design a system that can't develop increasing oscillations.
But sometimes due to constraint of racing rules, or being pushed harder than intended it will shake its ugly head.

Sometimes people care more about emulating their favorite racer or taking a cue and making it cartoonish.
Lowriders, donks and 'stanced' cars come immediately to mind.

You're building Big Blue to be purposeful, not a brodozer.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

FoxFord33

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I doubt you'll need one and you can always add it.

^^^This. I agree. If you experience "bump-steer" in an unwanted way when the project is roadable, then you'll know what to get.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

...brodozer.

Baahahahaha! That's an apt moniker.

Ford Grand Wagoneer - 1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer preparing to receive a Ford drivetrain...

A Keeper - 1993 F-150 XLT Super-Cab 5.0 EFI 2WD E4OD 8.8" with 3.55 gear Sold it for my Grand Wagoneer project!

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

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In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

Ok guys, you've convinced me I was right - don't do a steering stabilizer now. I can always add it if needed, but I don't think I will.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Banned User

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

And that got me to wondering about installing a damper. What are your thoughts?

A steering damper is ONLY for vehicles that will encounter obstacles over 1/4 the height of the tire at medium speeds (~15~45 MPH). The damper keeps the steering wheel from breaking the driver's wrists.

All other applications of steering dampers on highway vehicles are cosmetic, band-aids to hide a steering problem, or counterproductive.

Gary Lewis wrote

...the Land Rover he's working on...

Are you sure? It looks more like a Land Cruiser to me.

But there's not much of it there...

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

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Steve - Where'd you get the specs on what a steering damper is for? I've often thought that was the case, but have never seen it stated.

As for the Land Rover, to tell the truth I don't really know. I asked if it was a Land Rover and he said yes. And when I sent the pic to my son he said "Did you buy me the LR?" But beyond that my knowledge stops.

He's going to put an Isuzu diesel in it, which is pretty standard, and use an adapter plate to bolt up an NV4500. That way it can be driven comfortably on the highway. And, he'd like to put a D60 in the front so was asking me if I knew if a passenger's-side drop D60 exists. I told him I think the Dodges used them, but do any of y'all know?

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Nothing Special

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Gary Lewis wrote

.... And, he'd like to put a D60 in the front so was asking me if I knew if a passenger's-side drop D60 exists. I told him I think the Dodges used them, but do any of y'all know?

I'm pretty sure the old square body Chevies used a passenger-drop Dana 60 as well, before Chevy went to IFS.

Gary Lewis

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

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Thanks, Bob. I'll pass that on.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Steve83

Re: Big Blue's Transformation

Banned User

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Gary Lewis wrote

Where'd you get the specs on what a steering damper is for? I've often thought that was the case, but have never seen it stated.

It's an opinion I've formed over the years, based on how they're used by vehicle mfrs., many magazine articles, and diagnosing steering problems at work.

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