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Best alternator option?

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Littlebeefy

Best alternator option?

I've finally gotten around to cleaning up some wiring from the PO and traced an oddly spliced wire all the way back to the choke. Turns out my alternator wiring isn't completely working so the PO jerryrigged it.

I'm going to go ahead and replace/upgrade the alternator instead of trying to futz with the odd one that is in there. Any suggestions on the best alternator to convert to for a carb'ed 351 W? I wouldn't mind having a little extra current to work with but I'm not looking to do anything radical.

Thanks

LittleBeefy aka Chad

“Dot Doitall”: 1984 Bronco XLT
460 (C8VE), Edelbrock Pro-Flo 4, ZF5, NP205, D44HP solid axle, 4.56
urban assault vehicle

"Bebe": 2022 Bronco Badlands 2dr
2.7l, Sasquatch, Iconic Silver, Black Marine-grade interior, hard-top

"Celeste": 1979 Porsche 928
4.5l K-jet, 5-sp, S4/GTS brakes, LSD, Pasha interior

Gary Lewis

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

I think you want to do the 3G upgrade: Documentation/Electrical/3G Conversion in the menu.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

Littlebeefy

Re: Best alternator option?

Thanks, Gary.

I looked through that earlier and had a question that you may know the answer to. You mentioned that DB Electrical (at the time) offered a 130 amp unit and gave the model link as F4PZ 10346-B. When I look at that link though, they seem to start at 160 amps. Is the 130 amp no longer made? If I decide to go with a large case G3 and I'm looking for a reasonable 130 amps, what is the best model/manufacturer?

Gary Lewis

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

Interesting! Yes, when I go to the DB site I find a 160 amp for $211. But when I search for "DB Electrical F4PZ-10346-B" I find that Amazon has it for $79.95, and in the OEM Part # list I find F4PZ-10346-B included.

I think I'd call DB and see what gives. Or, just order it from Amazon.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Littlebeefy

Re: Best alternator option?

Good advice, Gary.

I called them. They do have the 130 amp unit for $70. You have to search for it under the part number AFD0032. This one should fit easily, right?

https://www.dbelectrical.com/products/alternator-3-8-mustang-94-95-96-97-98-99-00-thunderbird-cougar-94-97.html

Gary Lewis

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

Yes, I believe that will be a good fit. However, you'll have to change out the pulley, which is no big deal.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

LARIAT 85

Re: Best alternator option?

In reply to this post by Littlebeefy

Littlebeefy wrote

I've finally gotten around to cleaning up some wiring from the PO and traced an oddly spliced wire all the way back to the choke. Turns out my alternator wiring isn't completely working so the PO jerryrigged it.

The wire from the alternator to the choke assembly is correct. It is the power for the electric assist part of your choke. Most of these trucks came from Ford with a thermostatic "hot air" choke with electric assist. That wire is only powered when the engine (and alternator) is actually running.

Lucille: 1985 Ford F150 XLT Lariat

*Colors: Dark Canyon Red exterior, Canyon Red interior
*Engine: 5.0, CompCams 31-230-3, "Thumper" E7 heads, Edelbrock Performer intake, Autolite 4100 carburetor, DuraSpark II ignition, Thorley Tri-Y headers, Flowmaster dual exhaust, H-pipe.
*Drivetrain: AOD transmission, 3.55 gears, 2wd.

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

It would be interesting to know if his '86 came with a 1G or 2G alternator....

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

It should be a 2G from all I've read, but it would be interesting to know.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

Exactly!
And that's reason enough in my book, even if it were unfettered by the PO.

But Rick was showing 1G.
The choke stator wire on my truck came direct from the 'Fire Plug"

Perhaps we should change that page back to "stock replacement for 3.8 V-6 1991-1994"?

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Rusty_S85

Re: Best alternator option?

In reply to this post by Littlebeefy

I recommend the 3G as well. Just dont make it as complicated as I am with trying to find a small case 95A alternator with the wide ear spacing cause it may have existed at one time but no longer does. I thought about checking with the local alternator shop to see if they could build me a large case 3G but have it with the 95A rating as I have no plans to upgrade to a serpentine belt.

Also check rockauto, ive seen some brand new 3G`s on there for as little as $85 when I looked a few months ago.

"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

My new 3G was $70 delivered from DB Electrical...

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

LARIAT 85

Re: Best alternator option?

In reply to this post by Rusty_S85

Rusty_S85 wrote

I recommend the 3G as well. Just dont make it as complicated as I am with trying to find a small case 95A alternator with the wide ear spacing cause it may have existed at one time but no longer does. I thought about checking with the local alternator shop to see if they could build me a large case 3G but have it with the 95A rating as I have no plans to upgrade to a serpentine belt.

Also check rockauto, ive seen some brand new 3G`s on there for as little as $85 when I looked a few months ago.

Why does he need a 3G alternator if he has a carburetor? I have a 1G on Lucille and it works just fine. Am I missing something?

If you need more amps, here is another option:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-85-FORD-MUSTANG-100-AMP-HIGH-OUTPUT-ALTERNATOR/264300553258?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Machspeed

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

So looking at photos in our reference area, I have a 2G on my truck. It is the original OEM unit. If I went to a 3G, would my harness plug right in to the new 3G alternator? What other possible modifications might be required?

John

"Blackie" - 1986 F150 4x4 - Mildly warmed over 351W HO - Original owner

Gary Lewis

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

In reply to this post by LARIAT 85

He said "I wouldn't mind having a little extra current to work with but I'm not looking to do anything radical." The 3G is the cheapest way to do that as he can get one delivered for $80 delivered where the one you listed is $145 delivered.

And at 100 and 130 amps, both require some change regarding the ammeter & shunt. So there's no difference there.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

In reply to this post by Machspeed

Machspeed wrote

So looking at photos in our reference area, I have a 2G on my truck. It is the original OEM unit. If I went to a 3G, would my harness plug right in to the new 3G alternator? What other possible modifications might be required?

I do think part of your harness will plug in, but not all of it. The downfall of the 2G is the way the power lead connects, and that part will certainly not connect.

In addition, you have to do something about your ammeter and its associated shunt. That's explained to some extent on page, but basically the situation is that I believe the shunt is capable of handling a max of 70 amps. So if you go with an alternator that puts out more than that you should change the wiring and not run the output through the shunt.

One option is to just move the output to the starter relay's battery terminal. But in that case your ammeter will only show discharge as you turn on more and more accessories.

Another option is to have your ammeter turned into a voltmeter. That's the way I've gone on Big Blue.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

In reply to this post by LARIAT 85

Why would anyone take the time, effort and money to buy a new harness and a fender mounted regulator to get less at redline than even the 95A 3G puts out at idle?

We're not talking about absolute load, because the existing harness can only handle so much.
But we ARE talking about ability to top off the battery after starting.

Or not having your headlamps dim when the turn signals flash.

Or keeping up with the blower and the high beams when crawling through a snow storm.

Or when leaving it running to stay warm when it's below zero, while you grab a coffee or pump gas.

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

Gary Lewis

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

Jim - You have a good point that I missed. The alternator Rick linked to is a 1G and John's is a 2G. So, while that 100 amp alternator would work for Chad, it wouldn't work for John w/o some wiring changes.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

ArdWrknTrk

Re: Best alternator option?

Administrator

I know the 1G regulator pigtail is available, but are those wires long enough to reach the alternator?

The separate charge cable seems a wash (maybe you'd want thicker for 130A)

The 3G only uses the lt gr/r wire going to the regulator plug.
You need an eylet for the yellow wire and the stator plug for the bk/w wire.
Both of these loop *maybe* 3" right back to the 3G.

Or you can buy that regulator plug already made up for ~$12 from eBay.
That seems a wash with having to buy a regulator to ground on the fender.
And sometimes that real estate is valuable!

Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

LARIAT 85

Re: Best alternator option?

In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Why would anyone take the time, effort and money to buy a new harness and a fender mounted regulator to get less at redline than even the 95A 3G puts out at idle?

We're not talking about absolute load, because the existing harness can only handle so much.
But we ARE talking about ability to top off the battery after starting.

Or not having your headlamps dim when the turn signals flash.

Or keeping up with the blower and the high beams when crawling through a snow storm.

Or when leaving it running to stay warm when it's below zero, while you grab a coffee or pump gas.

Are you telling me that Ford installed a 1G alternator in their vehicles from 1965 all the way to 1985, and it failed to top off the battery after starting?

And it dimmed the headlights when the turn signal flashed?

And it couldn't keep up with the blower and the high beams at the same time?

And it wouldn't stay running when the blower was on in temperatures below zero?

If that is what you are saying, I think you are seriously misleading the original poster.

Littlebeefy said he isn't doing anything "radical" to his truck. Perhaps someone should ask him what he plans to do to before everyone tells him to "upgrade" to a 3G alternator. There is a good chance his current standard-issue 1G alternator is just fine for his needs. My truck came with the 1G alternator along with a feedback carburetor and the EEC-IV engine computer and it worked just fine for over 20 years - and it didn't have any of the so-called "problems" you rattled off. If he actually NEEDS extra amps, then the 3G alternator IS a worthwhile upgrade - as long as he realizes what all he has to do to make it work on his truck.

And it is a lot.

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