Bad Camber need help

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Bad Camber need help

MikeB315
Hey I just joined the forum recently in hopes of some advice on a few things regarding my 86’ f250 6.9 4x4 . I’m currently running a 4” lift and 37x12.50r16.5s and have been for years but over the past year or so I’ve gained really bad negative camber up front. I’ve had several different opinions but they’re all seemingly very different and could be pretty costly to follow each route people have suggested. I put on new ball joints, and connecting tie rod roughly 6 months ago and had it aligned but still couldn’t figure it out, I’m aware my front struts are in pretty serious need of replacing and I’m expecting them in the mail within the next couple days . Any advice would be greatly helpful.  





Mike, 1986 Ford F-250 LWB 4x4 6.9 IDI Automatic 4” tuff country lift on 37x12.50r16.5s











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Re: Bad Camber need help

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Mike - Welcome!  You've replaced the ball joints and a tie rod.  But by "front struts" do you mean shock absorbers?

I'm assuming that since yours is an F250 4wd that it has leaf springs up front.  Right?

By the way, this forum, like many others, doesn't manipulate pics.  So you need to open pics with something like Photoshop and then save them.  That way the meta-data in the pic that gives the orientation is read and the pic corrected by the software.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Bad Camber need help

MikeB315
Yes I should’ve clarified, the shock absorbers, it’s currently got a real old pair of Tuff Country SX8000 PN: 61262 on each side along with an additional shock absorber in between them however I can’t find the Part Number or brand for it. And yes it still currently has the leafs up front as well. 
I attached a picture I screenshot red from a video I recently took of them, I apologize for the rough quality I will be able to take better ones later. 
image1.png
Sent from my iPhone

On May 2, 2018, at 16:39, Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Mike - Welcome!  You've replaced the ball joints and a tie rod.  But by "front struts" do you mean shock absorbers?

I'm assuming that since yours is an F250 4wd that it has leaf springs up front.  Right?
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI



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NAML
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Re: Bad Camber need help

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Wow!  Three shocks.  Have never seen that.

Anyway, I'm not a suspension guru, although I do know that shocks won't cause the problem you are having unless they are somehow stuck.  That's not likely as you have the problem on both sides.  But, you can check that by removing one end of each shock to see what happens.

Also, I was going to direct you to the page on my website with the illustration for your truck.  Unfortunately I don't have it on the site!  

So, I'll put it up later.  Sorry!

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Bad Camber need help

MikeB315
Sounds good. Thanks again . I’ll get to taking things apart and having a look at it here shortly ! 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 2, 2018, at 17:02, Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Wow!  Three shocks.  Have never seen that.

Anyway, I'm not a suspension guru, although I do know that shocks won't cause the problem you are having unless they are somehow stuck.  That's not likely as you have the problem on both sides.  But, you can check that by removing one end of each shock to see what happens.

Also, I was going to direct you to the page on my website with the illustration for your truck.  Unfortunately I don't have it on the site!  

So, I'll put it up later.  Sorry!

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI



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NAML
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Re: Bad Camber need help

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I put several up in a hurry on Suspension/Front Suspension and on the Illustrations tab and then 4wd tab.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Bad Camber need help

85lebaront2
In reply to this post by MikeB315
First check the ride height, if it is correct, and you do not have oversize tires, then on the upper ball joint there are camber bushings, they are used to adjust both caster and camber. A friend who owns an alignment shop told me how the check and set the camber using a level.

A. Park the truck on a level paved surface, driveway, garage floor etc. drive it back and forth to allow the suspension to settle.

B. Find two matched pieces of wood, 2X4 is good about 3-4" long.

C. Put one at the bottom outside of the rim, the other at the top and put the level against them using the vertical direction bubble to see how far off you are.

D. Jack up the side you checked, remove the wheel and take off the nut on the upper ball joint, under there are the bushings, probably two, one inside the other.

E. Pry down on the spindle housing and smack the axle end with a large hammer, one or two good whacks should break the ball joint loose from the bushings.

F. Carefully remove them paying attention to how they were installed and look for the markings on them. If the wider side is out, try turning it 180° and reinstalling it.

G. Reassemble everything, and repeat steps A through C to see if it helped. Once this is complete, the toe in may need adjusting.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: Bad Camber need help

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Bill - I think he said he has a 4" lift and 37" tires, so the ride height issue is a moot point.  But the rest of the test should work.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Bad Camber need help

85lebaront2
Biggest thing, if his tires are wider than stock, it can shift the contact patch center out slightly causing two issues, camber problems and bump steer. His Rough Country lift could be part of the problem too if the inner pivot to spring pad relationship (drop in relation to the frame) isn't the same as before the lift was installed. The last and also a good possibility, his springs could be sagged a bit. I don't know if they are part of the lift kit or not since I (a) do not own a 4WD and (b) if I did, the 1986 F350 came with a live axle, probably a Dana 60 according to your information posted in the 4WD suspension section.

Fell free to maybe copy and paste the alignment information in the technical area.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: Bad Camber need help

Gary Lewis
Administrator
He says that he's been running this kit for years, but the problems have come up in the last year.  To me that says that wear is the problem, and that would include springs, spring bushings, and axle bushings.  (He's replaced another wear item, the ball joints, apparently in an attempt to fix the problem.)

Looking at the illustrations and remembering how those things go together from Huck and Big Blue, I can't see the bushings causing that problem.  Other problems, yes, but not negative camber.  It looks to me like the geometry limits the source of that problem to be sagging springs.

However, we know that toe-in causes the opposite of this problem when the trucks are driven in reverse.  What if the toe was set incorrectly so that the tires are pulling themselves into that position when driving forward?  That doesn't really fit with the problem having come on gradually in the last year and an alignment having been done, but...
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: Bad Camber need help

85lebaront2
Gary, the camber bushings, the ones the upper ball joints go into, if installed wrong can cause the negative camber. The F250 (twin to Jim's truck except with A/C) had a problem on the left front, it was visibly in at the top like the pictured truck. When I did the described alignment tests and looked, the camber bushing I think said 4° on it, and was turned with the wider side toward the wheel. I turned it around, primarily to see if we could get an idea what bushing I would need to get for it. After reversing it and reassembling everything, recheck was dead vertical, toe, that's another story, it was about 1/4" toed in which explained the comment "When I stop on the roads (dirt, it was a BSA camp truck) I see two little piles of dirt at the front tires." After I finished we went out on the paved roads and centered on the crown, Dan (the camp ranger) took his hands off the wheel and the truck stayed straight as an arrow, before it would have headed for the ditch on the right side.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413