Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

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Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

Notch5oh
I am finding so many clean F250's, but they are all 2wd. I'm looking at an all original truck in Oregon for $2500. And it's very nice. With the cost of a flight from Boston and shipping, I can be into the truck for under $5000.

The rear suspension seems easy and cheap. Just looks like shackles and springs.

The front is kind of intimidating. I have a mig welder and enough fab tools to tackle a lot, but are the mechanical bits complicated?

Am I going to regret it?

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Re: Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
The mechanical bits are identical to a 4wd F150.  You need a 4wd transmission, a transfer case, front and rear driveshafts, and the front axle bits: differential, swing arms, driveshafts, and hubs.  And I've just been through all of that on Dad's truck.

The only area I'm not sure of is the leaf spring suspension.  The 2wd F250's have coils and the 4wd's have leafs, if I understand correctly.  And I don't know if the spring hangers bolt to the frame in the pre-drilled holes or if you have to drill them.

Otherwise, it is straightforward.  But let's see what others say.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
An '86 250's 4wd front end is really nothing like 2wd.
'85 1/2 was the change from solid axle

In addition to the TTB and springs you will need all the steering gear from the pitman arm out, the spring shackles that fit up front inside the frame rails, front cross member w/ pivot bushings, sway bar & mounting plate, the trans cover with the second stick hole (and unobtainium boot), dash indicator, speedo drive/cable from the transfer case, etc.

Having driven a 4wd 250 for the past 32 years I would say you are better off buying a straight axle kingpin 4wd 350 and using that to swap over. Then you will have the taller rear blocks and U-bolts for the rear.
The ride is smoother and turning radius is much improved.

Keeping a 250 aligned is a pita and the ride is harsh.

The only issue with that is finding a donor 351 F-350, rather than a 460 or IDI as most are.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Or maybe find an '85 and down 250 to scavenge.
Then you will have the solid axle and none of the TTB headaches.

Buying an axle, hubs, brakes, rotors, steering gear, springs, tranny, TC, drive shafts, etc. is going to cost more than a donor, and you still won't have all the bits to make it work as it should.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

Ford F834
Administrator
In reply to this post by Notch5oh
Leaf spring trucks are pretty much a nightmare to convert to 4x4. There is a lot of fabrication work to recreate the front frame horns to accept the pivoting shackles. It can be done, but the consensus is “not worth it” unless you go with a mono-beam D60 front axle and a Reverse Shackle Kit (RSK). It is still a big job, but nothing like the fussy geometry of a TTB. I have not done a F250/350 4x4 conversion, but the many forum threads I have read on the subject all suggest a) buying a 4x4 truck to begin with, b) body swapping onto a 4x4 chassis c) RSK/SAS.
SHORT BED 4-DOOR DIESEL: 1986 F350 4x4 under construction-- 7.3 IDIT ZF5+GVOD

STRAIGHT SIX 4X4: 1981 F150 2wd to 4x4-- 300 I6 close ratio diesel T19, hydroboost brakes, Saginaw steering

BIG F: 1995 F-Superduty under construction— converting to 6.9L IDI diesel ZF5+DNE2
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Re: Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Regarding the RSK/SAS a number of threads have suggested the Sky "Ford no panhard" RSK kit as the only one that is suitable for a TTB 4wd 250.
All the spring and shackle bracketry is included.
You'll need a torch, welder, drills and reamers

And you still need the F-350 blocks on the rear axle as the RSK gives inherent lift to a 250 front end.
But that's for a 4x4 truck that has leaf springs already.
Having to remove the coil spring towers, figure out shock mounting and source a whole new driveline is another story.

Too much trouble in my opinion.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

Notch5oh
Sorry I should have mentioned I was going to source a Dana 60 front from an F350. Still sounds like a headache.

I’ve considered a body swap, but if the 4wd body is so rough it needs to be replaced, how’s that frame going to be any better?  

Maybe best to keep looking.
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Re: Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

IDIBronco
The easiest/best way (MY OPINION) to convert a 2wd to 4wd on the F250 TIB front suspension is to go to a modified TTB suspension.  Everything literally bolts in.  The trick is making the front suspension into an 8 lug.  It can be done a couple different ways.

The first thing you would need is to get everything off a twin traction beam truck.  People regular give the TTB parts away.

drivers beam
passenger beam
radius arms
knuckles 6 studs to hold on spindle (not sure of years that would meet this, but I know my 88 bronco had it)
driveshaft
transmission
transfer case

Then you just bolt all that in and now you would have a 4 wheel drive with 5 lug in the front and 8 lug in the rear.  The simplest way to convert the TTB front end to 8 lug is to track down some Chevy parts that would match your knuckles.  If you pick the right donor truck to get the parts from this is easy.

Overviews of the "easy" conversion to 8 lug.  

https://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/23-technical-write-ups/211942-dana-44-ttb-8-lug-swap-lots-pictures.html

http://www.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/tech/a-writeup-on-performing-an-8lug-swap-on-a-ttb-dana-44-front-axle-for-broncos-and-f150s-18627.html

The complicated way of doing this involves cutting apart beams to modify the ball joint spacing to match the F250 D44hd or D50 knuckles.  And if you are going this far to make this change it would be beneficial to use the D50 parts as you get spindles and hubs the same as a D60 axle.

If you are stuck wanting a solid front axle, you are almost always better to get a different truck that came factory with what you want.  It is not a simple conversion and requires a lot of fabrication.

I think with a little luck you could track down those parts for less than $500 pretty easy for everything, and that is with putting some money in new bearings and maybe brakes (cheaper stuff).

The last Kingpin D60 I pulled out of a junkyard I gave $150 for it, but cleaned it up and checked it out and sold it for $700.  That is about as cheap as they come around here.  I was extremely lucky to have found that one out in the junkyard.  I was even more lucky when it turned out to have been not abused and well maintained.  Then you need all the parts and fabrication to get it into your truck.  Since yours is a coil sprung front end you have to either make brackets to go to coil on the axle or switch the truck to leaves.  Either way it is not a cut and dry swap.  

For my .02 I would stick to a Twin traction beam suspension, but I am strange and really like that design.
1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
This post was updated on .
F-250 is already eight lug.

Super cab's and plow packages have the D-50 with 350 sized hubs, but the wheels are lug centric anyhow so there's no issue there.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

IDIBronco
The first post was asking to convert a 2 wheel drive F250 to 4 wheel drive.  True it is 8 lug already, but when you swap the parts I was suggesting you would be using the knuckles and beams off an F150.  That would require swapping some 8 lug parts on.  

They are not D44HD with 350 sized hubs.  They are actually D50's.  It is a different center pumpkin that got put into the ones with the D60 locking hardware and spindles.   The center section from a F150/bronco TTB D44 or a D44HD TTB from an F250 or a D50TTB from a f250/350 will interchange and physically bolt into any other axle.  

The knuckles out of all 3 axles are completely different, with some changes in each set of axles.

I know for sure there were both 5 and 6 stud knuckles for the D44 F150/Bronco TTB.

The D44HD TTB knuckles were 8 Stud.

https://www.blueovaltrucks.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Dana_44hd_ttb_steering_knuckles.jpg

Right are D44HD Left are D44.  Lots of differences.

D50 knuckles are only 5 stud like D60 knuckles.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JdcAAOSwvgdW4HI2/s-l1600.jpg

There are several other differences as well.  

The important thing to know is F150/Bronco/F250 2wd/F350 2wd use all the same frame mount points for front suspension.  So with a little smart choices you can mix and match parts to get what you want.

You could take a 2 wheel drive F150/F250/F350 and swap on a F150/Bronco 4x4 front axle just bolt in.  It would be 5 lug unless you modify it to be 8 lug to match the rear axle.

It has been done several times that I have seen.  I have mixed and matched parts before on a few projects and I am currently stockpiling and preparing to start on an axle upgrade on the bronco. I plan to make it a heavy duty hybrid of F150/F250 parts so it will be a blend of Dana 44/Dana 50 parts.
1985 Bronco
6.9 IDI
C6 T19
hydroboost brakes

8 Lug coil sprung D44ttb
10.25 3:55
warn classic bumper
8274 warn winch
Saginaw Conversion

1986 Ford F350 "Dump Truck"
6.9 IDI
T19
8'x12'x4' hydraulic dump bed
front mounted tow bar

1981 Ford F350 "Welding Truck"
300 I6
T18
Welders bed with hoist
onboard air
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Re: Am I asking for trouble attempting a 4wd swap on a 2wd F250?

jstone4646
lots of good info here I just came to make some notes....my only additional comment is that in the Jeep world we have a saying that "anything will fit with a torch, a welder, and some patience" Good luck with the swap!  
Project "Red" (not really named yet): '84 F150 4x2, Holley 4bbl 351 w/302 cam shaft and side exit pipes.  Still learning what else is there but in progress of putting her back together and on the road.