Alignment Questions

While I am paused waiting for parts, I thought I would throw something out to the board:

I am thinking of doing my own alignment.  There are several options.  But first to the SM!

The docs on this site, and the doc in my SM have small variations.  

Toe:  Gary’s doc states that total tow is 0 to  -1/32.  But at 14-01-05 for F350 4x4, states preferred is 1/32 toe in, and not more than 5/32.  Preferred setting in my SM at 14-01-07 is 2/32 making each wheel at 1/32.

My question is this:  Total toe does not align the tires, so, if, say a person strung a line, and measureed 2/32 toe in on each side to even them up, that should make a total toe of 4/32.  I think I need to align each wheel on toe before doing anything.  The only way a person can do it is to string a line and measure I think.

All the rest depends on ride height.  And while SM says caster is not moveable, it still suggests a range.  I think that with the new MOOG sleeves, caster is changable.  Either way, it is rather remarkable that all the numbers POSITIVE caster—meaning the caster on Ford 4x4 pushes the tire.

My Ride height is around 6 inches each side—I have leafs on the front.


Caster: so says the SM is positive at  2 1/2 to 4 3/4

Camber:  is all positive too, 1 to 3 3/4

The tires on it now are wearing on the outside more than the inside.  You can see the tires leaning to the eye—so they have positive camber and maybe too much.

The tire tread on both is also feathered from the out to the in—suggesting to me too much toe in.

Leaving aside caster for the moment.  taking care of camber and toe are my most important considerations.  I can set the MOOG sleeve to 0 caster and let the internal caster on the axle set it where factory set it—or very close to it depending on the schematic MOOG has to dial in camber.

If torqueking is right that the stock setting of camber was 1.5.  I think mine had the stock still in it—it was rusted to the axle—so, it would seem to me that 1.5 is too much, and I need to dial it back to 1 ¼ or 1.

All that to say this, there are a couple tools to use that will pay for themselves and that race guys, and do it yourself guys, use.  I post them below.  They get great reviews.  The problem is that I will still have to dial in the toe for each wheel first before checking total toe—there is no tool for that as far as I know.

Thoughts?


The first is the excellent Tenhulzen Automotive 2-Wheel Alignment Tool - All-in-one (Camber/Caster/Toe Plates) - Made in USA

The second only measures caster and camber—handy:

Here are the links to each:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PKI0YSU/?coliid=I35LVTGZ493WC4&colid=1272FGH6CHJ56&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09N6WR2MX/?coliid=I3B9TZELEPUPZC&colid=1272FGH6CHJ56&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Ok, I guess from reading this that your truck has the twin traction beams up front. We had a 1987 F250 4WD truck at our scout camp. The left front wheel was visibly leaning out at the top and the truck would leave two dirt piles at the front wheels when it was stopped on the dirt roads at camp.

I asked a friend who ran a real good alignment shop for suggestions. He told me how to align it for camber and toe using a level, two blocks and a tape measure.

(1) park the truck on a flat level surface
(2) using two matched blocks and a beam level, place a block top and bottom on each front rim, use the vertical bubble (one that goes across) on the level, see how far off you are.
(3) take the bushings out of the upper ball joint where it goes in the axle housing, see how many degrees are on the camber bushing (in out tilt). If it is a low value, try rotating it and reinstalling.
(4) roll truck back and forth to settle the suspension and recheck.
(5) toe adjustment - mark each front tire with something so you can find the center line of the tread. Measure front and rear as far up as you can reach. Front less than rear = toe in, more than rear = toe out.

Hey Bill,

Yes, sorry—Twin I Beam 50 IFS.

I think the camp had a 44HD, The 50 should just be a bigger version. If it has "king pins" they will be cone roller bearings top and bottom and I am not sure how they are aligned.

Here is what Gary has on the 1985 models, he may have the 1980 information also, but it isn't on the site yet. Darth, being 2WD has real king pins, big ones (1.054" diameter) and to align him I had to have the axles bent. The man who did him had also done my 1977 F150. Both trucks wear the front tires dead even side to side.

85lebaront2 wrote

I think the camp had a 44HD, The 50 should just be a bigger version. If it has "king pins" they will be cone roller bearings top and bottom and I am not sure how they are aligned.

Here is what Gary has on the 1985 models, he may have the 1980 information also, but it isn't on the site yet. Darth, being 2WD has real king pins, big ones (1.054" diameter) and to align him I had to have the axles bent. The man who did him had also done my 1977 F150. Both trucks wear the front tires dead even side to side.

It is a tricky process.  I am schooling myself on geometry (again) and reading up on the sleeve to change the caster and camber for the MOOG.

I can lie down on the driveway and SEE the inner tire off the ground ever so slight both sides.  Couple that with the feathering, and i have a toe problem.  

I am NOT going to keep the tires—too wide for me. They are 305—and I want 265 or close to that.  I believe 255 came with the truck stock.  I realize that after I get new tires which is a ways into the future, I will have to recheck all this again, which is why I want to learn this skill if I can.

I figure after I change the ball joints on each side, then I will mess with camber/caster.  But, I should be able to dial in the toe on each side as I go.  I have an idea on how to do that and will share even if I am a miserable failure at getting it right.

There is only ONE shop I have found near me that does alignments—no one else will touch the truck because…..they lost the knowledge on how to do it.  Most of the mechanic shops near me will not touch anything below 2000 model year.  Sad testament to matters it seems to me.  However, the place is a few miles away and they mostly work on BIG trucks.  If I am unable to do this accurately and reasonably, then I will admit defeat.

Stock tires were 235/85-R16 E
This should be on your door tag if you still have one.

There is ONE place I trust to align my truck.
Jimmy inherited the business from his father (we are the same age) and I've been going there since 1980.
I don't know what to do when he retires.

Edit: keep in mind that the front track is wider than the rear on these trucks.
This can prove a challenge if trying to use a string or not realizing the rear pointers need more offset.

those with astigmatism should not align by sight.  just sayin

Jim same here, one place in Ark VA, Stiltner alignment. He did my 1977 F150 and then I had him do Darth. He had a young man he had taken on as an apprentice and asked if I minded him doing Darth, under supervision. I told if he considered that he had potential, no problem. In both cases, his work is solid, other than a toe adjustment with new inner tie rods, nothing other than greasing the front end has been done since 1994.

Place up the road I bought the tires from, 2 fronts after an outside dual grenaded on the US 13 bypass around Salisbury coming back from my son's in W VA, then 4 more for the rear later. I put the front Alcoas on when I replaced those tires and the rear outers when I did the other 4.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Stock tires were 235/85-R16 E
This should be on your door tag if you still have one.

There is ONE place I trust to align my truck.
Jimmy inherited the business from his father (we are the same age) and I've been going there since 1980.
I don't know what to do when he retires.

Edit: keep in mind that the front track is wider than the rear on these trucks.
This can prove a challenge if trying to use a string or not realizing the rear pointers need more offset.

I have been looking for wheel info on just this very point.  If I recall, then, using a string depending on the difference in width from rear to front, there should be subtraction (if the rear is wider).  However, I am working up laser solution.  Will try to have that all mocked up today.  Thanks for the info!

Oh I had to get a MARTI for mine because someone literally peeled off the door tag and then painted over it!  That part of the replacement door sticker is missing from the MARTI.  However, in the description, it says it came with 9.50x16.5E tires.  That converts to the 235, yes?

Front track should be wider than the rear axle.
Measure from inside rim to inside rim with a folding ruler if you have one.
(It's way easier that taking all four wheels off and using an alignment caliper over the wheel mounting flanges)
You only need to know 1/2 the difference to create the offset, not an actual number from the hubs.

Oh, I'm sorry that I missed your truck was 1980 with 16.5 rims.
It's been so long since I've seen anyone still running that diameter that I forgot entirely that they came with decimal inch tires.
9.5" x 25.4mm = 241.3 carcass width. 6mm, or about 1/4" wider than the tires spec'd for later trucks.

OK, this is what I set up.  Pic shows how I did it with 5-6" offsetting bolts and basic strap metal.

The laser has levels in it.  

The only way I could think of trying to true the laser was to level a piece of wood in front and behind the front tire to the body and then measure from the wood how far the light hit.  This took some time and patience.  But I got it to work, and then measured the inside lip of the rim to the light.

On the D said I am ¼ inch toed IN.