Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

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Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

FrazerJames
I nearly posted this in my previous thread, but it ended up being mostly a conversation about whether EFI is an actual upgrade or not. Super informative, but I thought it be a hard turn to jump to this.

As explained previously, I’m planning to upgrade the 83 Bronco with the 3G alternator, Saginaw PS, Effy C intake manifold and the Holley Sniper EFI system in that order. I’ll be using much of what’s provided on this site to guide me, so, THANK YOU!

Here’s my question:
The PO had disabled the EGR system, but that seems to have created some vacuum issues (as suggested by very high idle with my existing Carter Carb). As I’m prioritizing all those projects and eyeing how I’m going to go about them, I can’t help but notice this big pump in my way of replacing the alternator.



I believe this is the “smog pump”? Or is that just a regular vacuum pump? Either way, if I’m moving to EFI, do I really need that thing? The EGR has supposedly been “disabled” as mentioned before, but I’m pretty sure I still see it attached to the block. I’m guessing if I remove the pump, block off all the vacuum hoses, remove the EGR and replace it with a block, it won’t detriment the engine?

My only concern is that I was in the dash and noted some vacuum lines (maybe for the AC?). Just need some guidance here. I’d love to clean up the engine bay a bit. I also read a thread on here about someone using that second pulley on the Alt to double up belts - I wouldn’t mind doing that if possible...

1983 Bronco 4.9 300 I6
Current Name: Whitney
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

Rusty_S85
that is the air pump, it injects air into the exhaust to help your converter burn HC that is still in the exhaust.

Thing with the sniper is they strongly suggest you do not retain emission systems.  You can retain some but I dont believe they recommend keeping converters and air pumps especially since you are pumping air into the exhaust before your O2 sensor which will make your sniper think it is running lean and richen the fuel up to the point that you are loading the engine up with raw fuel.

You honestly dont need that and your EGR you wont need either but without the EGR you should really consider having your distributor advance recurved as the advance curve is put into the distributor with the egr taken into account.

The air pump, it can be removed with no problem just remember to plug the air injection ports as you dont want any kind of leaks before your O2 sensor in the exhaust circuit.
"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I'm not disagreeing with Rusty.  Just providing a bit more info.

As said, the Air Injection Reaction (AIR) pump is there to put additional oxygen in the mix going into the catalytic converter.  And with the old style cats you need that.  So if you pull the pump or disable it you could have a plugged cat sometime down the road as it won't have enough oxygen to burn all the hydrocarbons.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

Rusty_S85
Correct, but even with the sniper holley strongly recommends not using their EFI with emission systems.

Only emission systems I would ever consider using are PCV and EVAP.  But catalyst and EGR I wouldnt use.
"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

FuzzFace2
On MY 300 the AIR goes in just before the CAT that is after the 02 sensor so cant see the issue in running the air pump.

I also find it strange that sniper said to remove all the smog stuff as it is not what the law wants you to do and you can be fined and / or go to jail. Just strange is all and yes all my smog is gone

This high idle you talk of even if the smog stuff is on or off the motor the idle should be able to be adjusted so look for a vacuum leak somewhere.

On the 2 belts for the ALT. What you have now you cant do that.
Look at all the belts: belts run from motor out on crank.
1 belt for ALT/water pump/crank
1 belt for PS/water pump/crank
1 belt for AC/water pump/crank
1 belt for ALT/air pump

Only non AC motors had 2 belts for the ALT and the air pump ran off the crank IIRC.
I just went thru all this when I installed the AC compressor on my motor.
Oh my motor never had the air pump on it and I blocked off the EGR but the valve is in place and can hook a vacuum hose to it but it will never work.

Yes you do have vacuum hoses to the HVAC control and with out it you could not change air flow from the defrost to floor or vents.
Only vacuum you need: carb to dist. and Intake to power brakes & HVAC panel.
That is all I have on my truck and it runs great working on getting the MPG up a little bit.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

FrazerJames
Great info Dave! Thanks!

If I’m losing the carb and going EFI, what would hook up to the Distrubuter?

Jim
1983 Bronco 4.9 300 I6
Current Name: Whitney
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

FuzzFace2
FrazerJames wrote
Great info Dave! Thanks!

If I’m losing the carb and going EFI, what would hook up to the Distrubuter?

Jim
Not sure but from what little I have seen posted on after market EFI is you need a dist. that the EFI computer can control.
So the stock dist., if it will work, will need to be locked so it cant change the timing.

I was talking for now if you wanted to remove the air pump & EGR and any of the vacuum lines & junk you can and just keep what I listed.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

FrazerJames
It sounds like the consultant I’m working with says my distributer should work fine as long as I don’t want to control firing. Maybe a future upgrade?

New related question though - I removed the air pump today and I’m staring at a ton of vacuum lines. Where does the vacuum come from? I’m used to an actual vacuum pump in the Merc Diesel. There’s a tree of vacuum lines near the front of the bay which is maybe controlling the vacuum?

Long story short I’m struggling to understand where I should be capping.
1983 Bronco 4.9 300 I6
Current Name: Whitney
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

Gary Lewis
Administrator
See if this helps understand what vacuum systems you need: Documentation/Underhood/Vacuum Systems.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

FrazerJames
That does help for sure. I think I have all those identified. I still just can’t figure out what creates the vacuum.
1983 Bronco 4.9 300 I6
Current Name: Whitney
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Gasoline engines operate differently from diesels in that the gas engines have a throttle.  And because there's a throttle there's a vacuum in the intake manifold.  The more throttled the engine is the more vacuum there is.  IOW, at idle there's max vacuum and at WOT there's min.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

Rusty_S85
In reply to this post by FuzzFace2
If the air injection is at the converter or after the O2 sensor then it wont have a negative effect on the operation of the EFI, but Holley still strongly recommends against using their EFI with emission systems.  It probably has to do with the fact that out of the box the default setting for the sniper is on the rich side and could pose a risk to converters.  If one were to have their unit tuned via laptop by a tuner then you would be a bit better off if you do plan on keeping emission systems like the AIR pump and converters.

Me I am getting rid of it cause on V8`s the air injection ports are in the heads and I have aftermarket heads without exhaust cross over and without thermactor ports so I could never hook up those emission systems if I even wanted to.

Of course by law you cant remove the systems but it doesnt stop people and people dont go to jail over it for old vehicles such as ours.
"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

Rusty_S85
In reply to this post by FrazerJames
Sniper both their base and their Stealth 4150 has what is called a timed port or ported vacuum for vacuum advance.  There is also manifold vacuum if you want to run manifold vacuum for vacuum advance as well.
"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

FrazerJames
This question is tied to the vacuum discussion above. I’ve got vacuum lines attached to the air cleaner. I believe one is to open up a door to introduce warm air in the winter. However, the vent going to that seems to have been broken off a long time ago. Is that vent necessary? Or is that vacuum line to the “door” even necessary?
1983 Bronco 4.9 300 I6
Current Name: Whitney
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
If you can retain the stock air cleaner, then that vacuum 'door' is important.
It modulates the incoming air temperature, to provide quicker warmup in winter and prevent icing in the venturi and intake manifold.

Rusty seems to be our resident Sniper expert, but if the EFI is compatible with the air cleaner it will surely have an easier time with constant air temperature and warm air at startup in winter.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by FrazerJames
The foil flex hose that goes to the exhaust shroud is a couple of bucks at any parts store, and we'll worth it imo.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

FrazerJames
Interesting! How does it gauge temperature?
1983 Bronco 4.9 300 I6
Current Name: Whitney
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
One of the two poker chips has a bimetal disc that will turn off and on the vacuum traveling to the motor attached to the flap.

Actually, there should be a vacuum restriction/ check valve to act as a damper between the two, so the flap isn't flapping in response to instantaneous temperature differences.

The flap is modulated, so it isn't just off or on, but will move between the two extremes.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

Rusty_S85
In reply to this post by ArdWrknTrk
Thats why I wanted to keep my warm air functional.  It is true that the point is to help maintain even air temperature for the carburetor.  But in cold weather pulling in warm air will also help to warm up the engine as well over pulling in cold air.

That is partly why I would really like to keep it functional.  But as of now I do not know.  I am still on the fence myself on the air cleaner on if I want to go dual snorkel or just go single snorkel.  The more I think about it I just dont see how the OE single snorkel would be restrictive to the point it would result in 40 to 60 hp reduction over a open element aircleaner.

But the snipers both the regular sniper and the sniper stealth they are setup to take OE aircleaners by having the same locating tabs as a carburetor to locate the aircleaner.
"Old Blue" - '56 Fairlane Town Sedan - 292-4V, Ford-O-Matic transmission, 3.22:1
'63 Belair 2dr sdn - 283-4V, Powerglide transmission, 4.56:1
'78 Cougar XR7 - 351-2V, FMX transmission, 2.75:1 9inch
"Bruno" - '82 F150 Flareside - 302-2V, C6 transmission, 2.75:1 9inch, 31x10.50-15 BFG KO2
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Re: Air Pump Delete for EFI upgrade

FrazerJames
In reply to this post by FrazerJames
And actually, now that I think about it, will I even have an exhaust shroud if I’m upgrading to the EFI exhaust manifold?

Just found the air cleaner section in the documentation. Going through it now!
1983 Bronco 4.9 300 I6
Current Name: Whitney
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