A/C condenser question.

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A/C condenser question.

BullnoseLuvr
I’m replacing every component in my A/C and changing over to R134a. I read somewhere that a cross-flow condenser works better than the original serpentine version.  Is that true?  I found a 1994 condenser that sure looks like it will fit my ‘84.  Can anyone shed light on this?

Thanks,

Mark
‘84 F150 4x4 351W 4sp. Regular cab, long bed, all original. '69 Continental MK III. Older restoration. '95 Saab 900S Convertible. '05 Saab 9-3 ARC Convertible 2.0T. Lime Yellow. '09 Saab 9-3 AERO Convertible 2.8T. Sand Beige top. '13 MINI Cooper Factory JCW 6sp. '01 H-D Sportster. '03 Yamaha FZ-1.
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Re: A/C condenser question.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I am pretty sure the condenser itself will fit.  I just put a 1990 condenser in my '85.  But, the lines are completely different.  So you'll have to either convert completely to the later system, which I did, or have custom hoses made.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: A/C condenser question.

6.9-250
In reply to this post by BullnoseLuvr
I put this kit in from Rock Auto - FOUR SEASONS TSN0322, with some orings from this kit - FOUR SEASONS 26721 and I replaced the condenser with OEM replacement (cant find the model or where I ordered it from though).  Used 134a.  That was 3 or so years ago and still works great.  Was 31c (88F) here the other day and kept me plenty cool.  

Important to not leave the drier exposed to atmosphere any longer then nessesary.  Even after its installed, get the system under vacuum as soon as possible.

The cooling capacity is great temperature wise, I wish I had more wind speed though the vents.  I've replaced the blower and cleaned a lot of stuff from the blower housing.  I may have buildup on the evaporator though restricting air flow, I have not looked into it yet.  Reason - it works as it is, lol.  

I spent roughly $800 CAD getting the a/c going in my truck....and worth every penny!

Sorry I was not able to answer your question, just wanted to add a bit of info from my a/c update.  
 
1985 Ford F-250, 6.9L, Auto C6, 4x4 208F, Extended Cab
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Re: A/C condenser question.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
On the wind speed through the vents, some of us have modified the wiring to include a relay in the high speed circuit.  If you look at the wiring (Documentation/Electrical/EVTM/1985 EVTM/AC-Heater) you'll see that the blower motor is powered by an orange wire, but then the ground side is run through the resistor pack and then back to the switch in the dash before going to ground.  One relay can't handle 4 speeds, but it is only High where you really want the maximum flow of air.  So we put a relay by the blower motor and have it go to ground right there.  It helps.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: A/C condenser question.

BullnoseLuvr
That's great to know.  I was wondering if there was a way to get beyond wheeze on the high setting.

Mark
‘84 F150 4x4 351W 4sp. Regular cab, long bed, all original. '69 Continental MK III. Older restoration. '95 Saab 900S Convertible. '05 Saab 9-3 ARC Convertible 2.0T. Lime Yellow. '09 Saab 9-3 AERO Convertible 2.8T. Sand Beige top. '13 MINI Cooper Factory JCW 6sp. '01 H-D Sportster. '03 Yamaha FZ-1.
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Re: A/C condenser question.

BullnoseLuvr
In reply to this post by 6.9-250
I'm replacing every component for about what you paid, I think.  Everything is four seasons except the evaporator.  The condenser I ordered was cancelled for lack of stock and so I'm looking at other options.  I read somewhere that the cross-flow condenser will work better than the original serpent style in the '84 -- especially with R134a.

Gary mentioned the later condenser has different lines.  I would consider dealing with that if it would get me better A/C performance.  I'd be surprised if it really makes a difference.

Mark
‘84 F150 4x4 351W 4sp. Regular cab, long bed, all original. '69 Continental MK III. Older restoration. '95 Saab 900S Convertible. '05 Saab 9-3 ARC Convertible 2.0T. Lime Yellow. '09 Saab 9-3 AERO Convertible 2.8T. Sand Beige top. '13 MINI Cooper Factory JCW 6sp. '01 H-D Sportster. '03 Yamaha FZ-1.
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Re: A/C condenser question.

BullnoseLuvr
In reply to this post by 6.9-250
That reminds me, some years ago after the truck sat for a while I took it out and as long as the fan was on high everything was fine,  but on the lower settings the cab filled with smoke and smelled like burning leaves!  The resistor coils get hot enough to ignite (or at least smolder) leaves.  I suppose if the leaves fully ignited the truck could've burnt to the ground.  Who knew?

Mark
‘84 F150 4x4 351W 4sp. Regular cab, long bed, all original. '69 Continental MK III. Older restoration. '95 Saab 900S Convertible. '05 Saab 9-3 ARC Convertible 2.0T. Lime Yellow. '09 Saab 9-3 AERO Convertible 2.8T. Sand Beige top. '13 MINI Cooper Factory JCW 6sp. '01 H-D Sportster. '03 Yamaha FZ-1.
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Re: A/C condenser question.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, that has happened to a whole lot of us.  Pull the blower motor and reach in and clean out the housing.  And, if you want, pull the resistor pack as it is then easier to clean.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: A/C condenser question.

BullnoseLuvr
Been there done that!  Now that I know what's going on I just run the fan on a lower speed until the smoke clears before I turn it off.  Crude but effective.

Mark
‘84 F150 4x4 351W 4sp. Regular cab, long bed, all original. '69 Continental MK III. Older restoration. '95 Saab 900S Convertible. '05 Saab 9-3 ARC Convertible 2.0T. Lime Yellow. '09 Saab 9-3 AERO Convertible 2.8T. Sand Beige top. '13 MINI Cooper Factory JCW 6sp. '01 H-D Sportster. '03 Yamaha FZ-1.
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Re: A/C condenser question.

kramttocs
I second the high speed blower relay mod. Was driving today with it on high and the kids in the backseat were complaining about the breeze.

I will be interested if you find a condenser. I tried and never could find a direct fit that didn't require either enlarging the opening on the core support or tilting the bottom of the condenser out towards the grill. Ended up cleaning and keeping the stock one but wouldn't mind having a newer spare in case.

Gary - did you not have to tilt yours?

Just some advice but think about who you are ordering from and their return policy just in case it doesn't match the photos or description and doesn't fit like stated.
Scott
Daily driver: 'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
Work truck: 'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/T18 - Gin Pole
Various parts trucks
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Re: A/C condenser question.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I used the condenser from Huck, the 1990 half-truck, and the only mod I had to make was to move the support arm for the inlet on the passenger's side up just 1/4".  Other than that it fit perfectly.  And the angle on the bottom was "factory" as the brackets fit very nicely.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: A/C condenser question.

grumpin
In reply to this post by kramttocs
kramttocs wrote
I second the high speed blower relay mod. Was driving today with it on high and the kids in the backseat were complaining about the breeze.
Not to hijack a thread, but I can’t wrap my head around this. High speed is going to ground. Why does this help?

The EVTM shows the diesel only part, but the grounds page show it going to ground through G701. The diesel has a connector for some reason. Path of least resistance and all.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 Suburban LT K2500 454 4L80E
2000 Nissan Xterra XE 4WD 3.3 RE4R01A
Oregon
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Re: A/C condenser question.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Dane - You have an excellent question!

The wiring for the blower motor follows this path in High:

Battery to ignition switch

Ignition switch to Fuse 9

Fuse 9 to A/C Function Switch

A/C Function Switch to motor

Motor to Blower Speed Switch

Blower Speed Switch to ground

So, to summarize, the power flows from under the hood into the cab, back under the hood, and then back into the cab and to ground.  What I did was to skip the run from the motor to the blower speed switch and take it directly to ground in my PDB via a relay.  And, I'm sure that helped.

But, what if for High we used a DP relay and fed the motor power from the PDB and grounded it then and there?  We'd take out a whole bunch of wiring, connections, etc.

I can probably easily do a voltage drop test to see how much drop there is 'tween the battery and the positive side of the motor in High.  Then we'd know what kind of difference that would make.  I'll do that in a few.....
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: A/C condenser question.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Well, with the engine off (it ain't running yet) the battery voltage was 12.83 volts, and the drop from the battery to the positive side of the blower motor on High was 2.03 volts.  That's a 16% loss.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: A/C condenser question.

grumpin
I was assuming it had to be wire size or distance. 16% loss, I also assume that’s with the relay set up.

My next question is, why a relay? Couldn’t you just ground it near the blower motor?
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 Suburban LT K2500 454 4L80E
2000 Nissan Xterra XE 4WD 3.3 RE4R01A
Oregon
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Re: A/C condenser question.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
That is with a ground relay.  Not power relay.

As for ground near the blower motor, no.  The wire goes back to the switch in the dash, and that switch has:

No connection to let the power go through all of the resistors in series and then to ground, which gives Low

A connection to go through two resistors and then to ground for M1

A connection to go through one resistor and then to ground for M2

A connection straight to ground for High.  But that wire comes all the way back to the switch from the motor, so I put a relay in it to go to ground by the motor, but controlled by the speed switch's High position.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: A/C condenser question.

grumpin
Ding! Light bulb finally appeared above my head!

Thank you, now I have my head wrapped around it.
Dane
1986 F250HD SC XLT Lariat 4x4 460 C6
1992 Bronco XLT 4x4 351W E4OD
1998 Suburban LT K2500 454 4L80E
2000 Nissan Xterra XE 4WD 3.3 RE4R01A
Oregon
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Re: A/C condenser question.

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Let's see if this helps.  Here's Gary's version of the wiring with relative positions shown.

My ground relay replaces the orange wire.  But a better approach would to be to replace all of the red wires with a relay, and there's where the 2.03 volt drop was measured.  But the best approach would be to do both.

I don't know where Scott put his relay.  Maybe he will tell us.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: A/C condenser question.

kramttocs
Glad you brought this up Dane.
I did the power side relay since I was working in that area and it is easy to implement. I plan on doing the ground side at some point to offload the blower switch. Bill has some good insight on this topic as well.
Let's continue this here if ok with everyone.
Scott
Daily driver: 'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
Work truck: 'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/T18 - Gin Pole
Various parts trucks
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Re: A/C condenser question.

BullnoseLuvr
In reply to this post by kramttocs
I found a condensor at PepBoys.  It's a crossflow type, but listed for the '84.  I'm going to pull my original condensor and take it with me on Monday to compare with the new part and bring it home if it fits or is close enough that making it fit won't be a big deal.  I'm going to take my new hoses with me to check the connections.  My original is good and I could flush it but I'd feel better replacing every component and the condenser is the last one standing.

Mark
‘84 F150 4x4 351W 4sp. Regular cab, long bed, all original. '69 Continental MK III. Older restoration. '95 Saab 900S Convertible. '05 Saab 9-3 ARC Convertible 2.0T. Lime Yellow. '09 Saab 9-3 AERO Convertible 2.8T. Sand Beige top. '13 MINI Cooper Factory JCW 6sp. '01 H-D Sportster. '03 Yamaha FZ-1.
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