A/C Installation

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A/C Installation

kramttocs
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This post was updated on .
Getting ready to install the a/c components back in the 86 Supercab. Left them off for awhile so I didn't have to work around them

Everything was hooked up when I got the truck but I never tried the 86 and I only had it during the winter before I took it apart. I believe the PO said it needed charged.

I had the evaporator tested before reinstall and it checked out.
Installed a new core and a new accumulator
The accumulator is installed but is using the old oring since I just needed to get it installed to ensure my heater core shut off valve cleared it.
I have ordered the MT2526 oring kit.

Currently-
The evaporator is installed with the tubes plugged
The core is installed with the bottom tube plugged
The accumulator is temporarily hooked to the core top tube. The curved port on the accumulator and the valve nipple are plugged

I found some info from Archion on FTE stating:

.On the orifice tube, you would want a red tube for a standard cab, and an orange tube for an extended cab/crew cab. If you live in an extremely hot area, I would recommend the VOV, variable orifice valve, it automatically adjusts according to the needs placed on the system, but is not really needed unless your in a more extreme climate. To adjust the cutoff pressure you use the small straight slot screw between the contacts on the switch., the one on the accumulator.

Here is some info on the tubes, color, orifice size tolerance and Four Seasons part #.

Blue - .0655-.0685 - FS Part # 38621
Red - .0605-.0655 - FS Part # 38635
Orange - .056-.059 - FS Part # 38639
VOV - for under 105 degree averages - FS Part # 38902
VOV - for over 105 degree averages - FS Part # 38904
 
Any reason to not go with the VOV 38902 over the orange 38639?

I haven't ever worked with a/c so any advice is welcomed. My neighbor has done vehicle a/c repair for years and is going to help but I'd like to had a good idea going in.

Right now I don't know what questions to ask on here to ensure I am prepared to take the truck to him.

Can I install everything or do I need to leave some things undone?
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: A/C Installation

85lebaront2
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The orifice tube (BTW, I believe the post from FTE was made by Archion) the cab size and location of your truck come into play. I think I have the blue orifice tube in Darth and I am on Virginia's Eastern Shore, so humidity can be very close to 100% in the summer. Darth's AC will freeze you, even on a hot day in heavy traffic. I ran him for quite a while on an R134a conversion, then scored a 1996 system and installed it with a new condenser for a 1994-1996/7 truck so I now have a complete R134a system.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: A/C Installation

kramttocs
Administrator
You're right - I meant to look up the name and give credit but forgot. Updated it now.

Located in Southwest Missouri. Truck is a Supercab.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: A/C Installation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Scott - Do you know who Archion is?  His name is Matt Vose.  Real nice guy.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: A/C Installation

kramttocs
Administrator
Haha I didn't realize that.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: A/C Installation

85lebaront2
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Most of the time, he could be a real pain at times.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: A/C Installation

FuzzFace2
Any reason to not go with the VOV 38902 over the orange 38639?
So anyone have an answer on this?
What does the AC guy next door say?

AC is the next project on my truck and have wondered on the valves.
If one is good then the other must be better no?
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: A/C Installation

kramttocs
Administrator
I will shoot him a text now. I did some looking online and it seemed like a lot preferred the fixed one over the VOV for the simplicity of it and mantra of fewer moving parts.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: A/C Installation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
My nephew, an engineer and someone that has done quite a bit of A/C work, thinks the VOV is a good idea.  He's seen them work nicely in other vehicles, but hasn't done one in a Ford.

Having said that, he isn't a professional A/C guy.  So I'm anxious to see what your neighbor says, Scott.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: A/C Installation

old55pete
In reply to this post by FuzzFace2
When I redid the AC on my Bronco in 2002, it blew a hose. I replaced the hoses, the dryer, the orface tube( I put the blue one back in it as it was the stock one) I flushed the system and converted the system to R134. With all of this done, on a 119 deg day in Phoenix, we had to turn it down to keep from freezing.

To quote Mr Scott from Star Treck, " The more you mess with the plumbing, the easer it is to stop up the drain ".

One I learned in the Army, the hard way I might add, KISS...…………..Keep It Simple Stupid...… Ford engeneared it that way for a reason, and as we all know, Ford always had a better idea.
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC
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Re: A/C Installation

kramttocs
Administrator
My neighbor uses the fixed. I also checked with the shop that tested the condenser. They said they have nothing but issues with the vov.
I like the idea of the vov but I'll stick with the fixed.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: A/C Installation

Gary Lewis
Administrator
I guess I'll stay with a fixed one.  KISS!
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: A/C Installation

FuzzFace2
Ok so here it's almost a month later do we have any up dates?

What color orifice did you use?
Did you add any oil to the system and if so what type and how much?
I also take it you charged it with 134A?


Hope you don't mind a high jack:
I am also getting AC parts to get my F100 system working again.
I have a new condenser, used Sanden compressor (marked 85 F150), going to flush the evap., new dryer & orifice valve (blue I think) and not sure on hoses if new or used or combo of both?

So what oil do I add to the system PAG or Ester?
If PAG what flavor 46, 100 or 150?
How much oil with just a used compressor and the rest either new or flushed out?
When would the oil be added and where? Pull a vacuum and suck it in or pour it in a open hose before a vacuum is pulled?

And maybe the last question how much R134A would it take?
I know it should be weighed but if doing this all at home I would not have access to a scale so wing it with cans and gauges.
Then again I may get everything in place and if I cant get a vacuum pump may farm the charging out so would not really need to know then.
/ high jack

Thanks guys in advance
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: A/C Installation

old55pete
Dave, I will give you what I have gleaned from the A/C classes I have taken over the last 20 years or so. In some states you HAVE to recert for A/C every couple of years and cant buy more then 3, 12 oz cans of R134 at a time if you are not certed. Welcome to California drewling into AZ.

1 The the blue orface tube should be fine for your pickup. It had a white one from the factory but the blue will work better the R134

2 If you are going to use R134, you need to be using Pag 150 oil with green die in it as the die will show where leaks are. You can use Ester oil, but pag 150 is recomended by Sanden and most of the major compressor manufacters. We have been told for years that Ester oil when used with R134 sets up a chem reaction that eats the aluminum parts in the system over time. The older the system, the quicker the reaction.

3 According to the Ford service manual for an 86 F150 regular cab, It has a 3 pound system. In that case, you need to add 1 oz of pag 150 for every 2 lbs of freon so an ounce and a half should be fine. Add the oil after you vacum down the system or at the same time you add the freon through the low side port.

4 You need to change the pressure switch on the accumulater/ dryer to an R134 switch as the pressures run a little different then they do with R12. The NAPA part number for this switch is TEM 207887, you can cross that to what ever parts source you want to.

5 Once you have the oil and freon added( you may have to start the engine and turn on the A/C to get the third lb in). Once all of that is done, watch the guages as the comperssor cycles. On the low side, the compressor should come on at around 22 lbs and shut off around 45 lbs, on the high side the compressor should shut off around 250 to 300 and come on around 100 psi. Some where between 250 and 300 lbs on the high side, the engine fan should kick in and drop the pressure. If the fan DOES NOT come on and drop the preassure , shut the engine off and replace the fan clutch. It the pressure is too high it will cause damage to the system.

Dont take any of this as gosple, it is just what I have learned as a truck and heavy equipment machanic over the last 20 or so years. I am sure someone on on this site knows a better way and has more nolage then me as even I am still learning.
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC
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Re: A/C Installation

kramttocs
Administrator
Good info Steve.
House projects combined with the not so urgent need to go anywhere in the truck right now have lessened the urgency of this project. I found that the orifice tube was now a permanent fixture in the evap so without knowing the history of the compressor I ordered a new one the other day. If you buy the compressor, dryer, orifice, and flush the system you get a lifetime warranty.
I also ordered a new line between the dryer and condenser. Waiting on all that to come in (special order so will be a couple weeks).
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: A/C Installation

old55pete
Scott, if you are talking about the small line, about 3/8 outside diamiter, I have a spare one here, some how I ended up with 2 when I ordered the hoses for mine.
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC
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Re: A/C Installation

FuzzFace2
In reply to this post by old55pete
old55pete wrote
Dave, I will give you what I have gleaned from the A/C classes I have taken over the last 20 years or so. In some states you HAVE to recert for A/C every couple of years and cant buy more then 3, 12 oz cans of R134 at a time if you are not certed. Welcome to California drewling into AZ.

1 The the blue orface tube should be fine for your pickup. It had a white one from the factory but the blue will work better the R134

2 If you are going to use R134, you need to be using Pag 150 oil with green die in it as the die will show where leaks are. You can use Ester oil, but pag 150 is recomended by Sanden and most of the major compressor manufacters. We have been told for years that Ester oil when used with R134 sets up a chem reaction that eats the aluminum parts in the system over time. The older the system, the quicker the reaction.

3 According to the Ford service manual for an 86 F150 regular cab, It has a 3 pound system. In that case, you need to add 1 oz of pag 150 for every 2 lbs of freon so an ounce and a half should be fine. Add the oil after you vacum down the system or at the same time you add the freon through the low side port.

4 You need to change the pressure switch on the accumulater/ dryer to an R134 switch as the pressures run a little different then they do with R12. The NAPA part number for this switch is TEM 207887, you can cross that to what ever parts source you want to.

5 Once you have the oil and freon added( you may have to start the engine and turn on the A/C to get the third lb in). Once all of that is done, watch the guages as the comperssor cycles. On the low side, the compressor should come on at around 22 lbs and shut off around 45 lbs, on the high side the compressor should shut off around 250 to 300 and come on around 100 psi. Some where between 250 and 300 lbs on the high side, the engine fan should kick in and drop the pressure. If the fan DOES NOT come on and drop the preassure , shut the engine off and replace the fan clutch. It the pressure is too high it will cause damage to the system.

Dont take any of this as gosple, it is just what I have learned as a truck and heavy equipment machanic over the last 20 or so years. I am sure someone on on this site knows a better way and has more nolage then me as even I am still learning.
Thanks for the information.

I got out of HVAC just when the need for cert's came out.
You can buy 3 cans 1 store and then 3 more at another if needed LOL
Not that I plan to do that. I want to only add the needed amount 1 time!

The oil that leaked out of the compressor had a green color to it.
I don't know if it was a R12 or 134A system it came off of, mine a R12.
That is why the question on oil as I thought some did not play well with R12.
I have Ester coming but want to make sure before I add anything to the system.

I knew the psi switches had different settings but thought the R12 could be adjusted?
But being the system is open might as well replace it with the right one.

The orifice valve was black that I pulled out but a blue one coming as that's what was listed to use.
Good to hear it will work.

Thanks again.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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Re: A/C Installation

old55pete
I am going to say that if it has green oil coming from the compressor, the system was converted to 134 and has pag 150 in it already. Of course that is a guess.
Steve
86 Bronco, XLT, 5.0 EFI, EEC IV, AOD, IFS, limited slip front and rear, 3.08 gears, Tilt steering, factory AC
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Re: A/C Installation

kramttocs
Administrator
In reply to this post by old55pete
Yep, that'd be it. O'Reilly's showed two options - one with a manual shut off and one without. I believe mine has the shut off (assuming that's what the squared off rod in the large line is for). Too late for me but maybe someone else will be able to use your spare one if you are wanting to sell it.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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Re: A/C Installation

kramttocs
Administrator
Haven't done a good job documenting this (fortunately Dave is) but the A/C is installed and did a highway test run this evening to really check it out.
This is the first Bullnose I've had with a/c so unfamiliar with what is normal and I've only put about 20 minutes in with this one. The two I grew up in did but never paid attention and they were decommissioned too long ago.
The a/c at highways speeds works great. Need to put a thermometer on it but definitely got cold in the supercab.

First, at idle the rpms really take a hit. Drops down to a little over 500. Normally my converted voltmeter stays dead center but a couple times when idling in park or at a stoplight it went significantly to the left. I assume this is all rpm related and alternator output at those speeds as I don't think the a/c clutch pulls much at all. Alt is a 150amp unit on a single v belt.

Second, temps. Huge difference in coolant temp when the a/c is on. Prior to a/c, unless towing up a hill, the gauge stays between O-R when doing any driving at all. Idling in the shop with no air movement and 90 degree weather I've noticed in that past that when it gets to around A the fan clutch kicks in and drops it back down. With the a/c on this evening, even on the highway, it stayed pretty close to the M-A area. The fan clutch always brings it back down but is this much of a temp increase normal?
When we were charging it my neighbor was getting a little concerned with how high the a/c pressure was getting before the fan clutch kicked in. Once it kicked in, everything leveled out but I don't like the idea of there being any risk at all if running the a/c at idle. Should I change something to make the fan clutch kick in sooner? It's a new one replaced during the rebuild so 1500 miles on it.
The aluminum radiator came with a shroud with 2 electric fans built into it but most I've read says to stay with the mechanical fan.
Scott
'Camano' 1986 F250 Supercab XLT Lariat 460/C6
'Chanute' 1980 F350 C&C 400/NP 435 - Gin Pole

But there ain't nothin' wrong with the radio
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