2G to 3G Swap

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2G to 3G Swap

Bruno2
This post was updated on .
My son has a 91 F 150 5.8 truck. His old 2G has been doing some erratic charging and not charging. It's time for a swap, but certainly not back to the 2nd Generation alternator. I headed out to the junkyard this morning to harvest some upgrade goodies at a discount (it was a beautiful day for it too).

First of all the Bricknose trucks use a different 3G alt than the Bull's and thank the Lord because the otions are much more plentiful for this yr of trucks. My targets were vehicles with the 7" mounting ear spacing. They include :93-99 non- DOHC Taurus, 94-95 V8 Mustang, 94-00 V6 Mustang, 94-97 V6 T-Bird/Cougar, 95-98 Windstar and 91-94 V6 Lincoln Continental. My personal preference were the V6 Mustangs. They were plenty and when I say the alt took 5 minutes to remove I mean it may have taken less. I pulled 3 and kept 2. $22.99 ea. was certainly cheap enough to have another on standby. I pulled the charging cables from these vehicles as well. However, I though they lacked a little luster and were not very robust looking. I also needed some mega fuse options for the swap so I kept pilfering.

When thinking about fuses and heavy gauge cable, gigantic luxury vehicles with a lot of options comes to mind. I started looking under the hood of the Expeditions. Now their alternators are not options for swaps, but their cables on the other hand are primo! A 98 was my patient. He had a big 4 ga cable and all of the alt plugs were the same. Also, he had a big mega fuse and fuse holder inline with the cable. The only thing I didnt like about the cable harness was that the fuse holders snapped onto a bracket that needed to come along as well.


This is a pic of the 98 Expedition harness. This is almost a plug and play with the 2G to 3G swap. The only wire that needs to be spliced is the green one.

This is the clip that the fuse holder uses to attach itself to the bracketry.
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This is another pic of the cable. What would be a yellow wire is red on this harness. This is the regulator wire that is either supposed to be attached back to the positive stud or attached to the alt side of the mega fuse. It is already attached to the alt side of the fuse in this harness via it's handy dandy 20 amp minifuse.


This is a pic of the bracketry. I am going to modify it to mount close enough (hopefully) to the starter relay so that nothing else has to be done.



This is the transplant about to be installed
Whitey: 1996 F 250 XL CCLB 4X4 7.3 DI ZF5 (The Work Horse) Lots of power mods
Whitey Jr: AKA Jr 1982 F 150 CCLB 4X4 351W C6 (Jr Work Horse) respectable power, but not over the top
The Bronco: 1987 Bronco XLT 351W C6 (needs work) Lots of off road mods and plenty of power mods
The Dodge: 2006 Ram 2500 CCSB 4X4 5.9 HO Cummins (The reliable ride that cant keep an AC in itself) (5th AC go around almost complete)
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Bruno2
I am planning on doing the swap next weekend. According to what I have been reading the mounting brackets for the alternator need to be modified with some grind in order to get the clearance for the 3G to sit in it. I plan to post pics of the install when I do it. This should be an easy mod/upgrade for the truck.
Whitey: 1996 F 250 XL CCLB 4X4 7.3 DI ZF5 (The Work Horse) Lots of power mods
Whitey Jr: AKA Jr 1982 F 150 CCLB 4X4 351W C6 (Jr Work Horse) respectable power, but not over the top
The Bronco: 1987 Bronco XLT 351W C6 (needs work) Lots of off road mods and plenty of power mods
The Dodge: 2006 Ram 2500 CCSB 4X4 5.9 HO Cummins (The reliable ride that cant keep an AC in itself) (5th AC go around almost complete)
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Bruno2
Well done, Brandon!  Both for the harvesting as well as documenting it!  

That '98 Expedition harness looks to be quite the score.  
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Steve83
In reply to this post by Bruno2
Bruno2 wrote
...the mounting brackets for the alternator need to be modified with some grind in order to get the clearance for the 3G to sit in it.
It's shown in this photo album, but SMN was down when I posted this:
https://www.supermotors.net/registry/3536/54000-4
It's probably back up now.
Walk softly and carry a BIG SIX!!!
https://www.supermotors.net/registry/2742#album
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Steve - It is up at the moment, but I'm not sure I found the right pic.  This one says there is interference with the large case, but Brandon is going with the small case 3G.  Is this the wrong one?



Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

85lebaront2
Interesting, the 302/351 may have the interference, but the 460 does not, probably because the 460 still uses an adjustable alternator to tension the right side polygroove belt.
"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional"
Darth Vader 1986 F-350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator
Wife's 2011 Flex Limited
Daily Driver 1994 Taurus LX
Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

ArdWrknTrk
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary,

Brandon is using a 130A alternator (large case) with the 7" C-C mounting.

Small case (95A) are 135(?)mm in diameter, while large case (130A) are 148mm in diameter.

The Windsor engines with a serpentine belt have a cast bracket with 7" centers.
Some of the webbing needs to be relieved in order for the larger case to fit.

RJM, and even GGM have the pics illustrating the difference.



Though this is a side mount alternator you can clearly see how the 130A version is much closer to the mounting points.
Perhaps Brandon can take some pics for you as he does the job?
A round nosed carbide burr in a die grinder makes quick work of this.
Lil' Red
'87 F250, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Steve83
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary Lewis wrote
...I'm not sure I found the right pic.
Yes, but the NEXT several show the interference & clearancing better:



I used a 4.5" angle grinder & 1/4" wheel.
Walk softly and carry a BIG SIX!!!
https://www.supermotors.net/registry/2742#album
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Jim - I missed that he had the small case but 130a alternator.  Thanks.  And, I'll ask him for some pics.

Steve - Thanks.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

ArdWrknTrk
Gary Lewis wrote
Jim - I missed that he had the small case but 130a alternator.
And, I'll ask him for some pics.
... He is using the large case -2 hole, 130A- but the narrower 7" C-C mounting ears.

Mounting distance and case diameter are independent of each other.
Lil' Red
'87 F250, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with an Edelbrock 1826 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Ok, got it.  I think.   
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Bruno2
So we got the 3G swap underway today.


A lot of stuff needed to be cleared out.



Adios junk harness!



So long 2G. You will make an excellent core for Jr's 3G swap



Here is the new organ.



Some clearance made.



A little more clearance.



Adapting the 91 green wire plug to the Expedition harness.



She is in! The top bolt needs to be replaced by a 3/8" x 2" bolt with a lock washer and nylon locking nut because there is no threaded hole any longer.



The mega fuse was adapted to the stiff arm on the batrery tray.



This is at least 3 more volts than what he was seeing on the volt meter.
Whitey: 1996 F 250 XL CCLB 4X4 7.3 DI ZF5 (The Work Horse) Lots of power mods
Whitey Jr: AKA Jr 1982 F 150 CCLB 4X4 351W C6 (Jr Work Horse) respectable power, but not over the top
The Bronco: 1987 Bronco XLT 351W C6 (needs work) Lots of off road mods and plenty of power mods
The Dodge: 2006 Ram 2500 CCSB 4X4 5.9 HO Cummins (The reliable ride that cant keep an AC in itself) (5th AC go around almost complete)
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Bruno2
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
My son Kris, was not wanting to roll the dice this week by hoping the 2G remained reliable. We did a harmonic balancer last week on his truck.  He left the key on for a couple of days and it completely drained his battery. The 2G like to never got the charge back up. When it finally did the 2G was barely putting out 13 volts.

So we decided to do it today with limited time.  A couple of things need to be changed. The wiring is a mess in my opinion. Also, the 3G is clocked wrong. I didn't do enough research on how to re clock it so we left it alone for now. The job took about 2-1/2 hours. I think that was long , but we made several adjustments.  Not knowing how much extra clearance was needed made for 3 or 4 attempts at it. We mounted the mega fuse only to find out the clocking wouldnt allow for it. Then we had to move the mega fuse from the fender to the battery tray strut.

This is why I wanted to wait. However,  I can understand why he didn't.  So maybe next weekend I will add to this thread by doing the clockwork.  We need to do an exhaust manifold while we are at it.

Cheers!
Whitey: 1996 F 250 XL CCLB 4X4 7.3 DI ZF5 (The Work Horse) Lots of power mods
Whitey Jr: AKA Jr 1982 F 150 CCLB 4X4 351W C6 (Jr Work Horse) respectable power, but not over the top
The Bronco: 1987 Bronco XLT 351W C6 (needs work) Lots of off road mods and plenty of power mods
The Dodge: 2006 Ram 2500 CCSB 4X4 5.9 HO Cummins (The reliable ride that cant keep an AC in itself) (5th AC go around almost complete)
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Bruno2
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gary, mine has the 2 cooling holes so it is the large case 3G with 7" spacing. I didnt know this until Jim posted the pic.
Whitey: 1996 F 250 XL CCLB 4X4 7.3 DI ZF5 (The Work Horse) Lots of power mods
Whitey Jr: AKA Jr 1982 F 150 CCLB 4X4 351W C6 (Jr Work Horse) respectable power, but not over the top
The Bronco: 1987 Bronco XLT 351W C6 (needs work) Lots of off road mods and plenty of power mods
The Dodge: 2006 Ram 2500 CCSB 4X4 5.9 HO Cummins (The reliable ride that cant keep an AC in itself) (5th AC go around almost complete)
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Bruno2
I also thought it was just 95 amp unit. I looked the specs up on the parts and it does say this is 130 amp unit. I almost put a 100 a
mp mega fuse in it lol.

So the output went from the 80 amp 2G to a 130 amp 3G.
Whitey: 1996 F 250 XL CCLB 4X4 7.3 DI ZF5 (The Work Horse) Lots of power mods
Whitey Jr: AKA Jr 1982 F 150 CCLB 4X4 351W C6 (Jr Work Horse) respectable power, but not over the top
The Bronco: 1987 Bronco XLT 351W C6 (needs work) Lots of off road mods and plenty of power mods
The Dodge: 2006 Ram 2500 CCSB 4X4 5.9 HO Cummins (The reliable ride that cant keep an AC in itself) (5th AC go around almost complete)
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Brandon - You and Kris did well.  

On the clocking, Steve has a how-to toward the bottom of this page: https://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/1079023
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Bruno2
That doesn't sound too difficult.
Whitey: 1996 F 250 XL CCLB 4X4 7.3 DI ZF5 (The Work Horse) Lots of power mods
Whitey Jr: AKA Jr 1982 F 150 CCLB 4X4 351W C6 (Jr Work Horse) respectable power, but not over the top
The Bronco: 1987 Bronco XLT 351W C6 (needs work) Lots of off road mods and plenty of power mods
The Dodge: 2006 Ram 2500 CCSB 4X4 5.9 HO Cummins (The reliable ride that cant keep an AC in itself) (5th AC go around almost complete)
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Nope.  I was able to do it, so I'm sure you can.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI
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Re: 2G to 3G Swap

Steve83
In reply to this post by Bruno2
Bruno2 wrote
Adios junk harness!
There's actually nothing wrong with that harness - just the bigger connector.  But it can be fixed by cutting that connector off, splicing the Wh/Bk wire to a pigtail for a 3G, and putting the other 2 wires into a ring terminal.

Bruno2 wrote
...with a lock washer and nylon locking nut...
You're one of those belt-and-suspenders guys, huh?
Bruno2 wrote
...there is no threaded hole any longer.
But it's pretty easy to drill out the alternator slightly & tap it for a larger bolt.

Bruno2 wrote
This is at least 3 more volts than what he was seeing on the volt meter.
Did you check it before or after with a digital multimeter?
Bruno2 wrote
...completely drained his battery. The 2G like to never got the charge back up. When it finally did the 2G was barely putting out 13 volts.
Not surprising - alternators are NOT designed to charge dead batteries, and trying to do so usually ruins them; even a 3G.  Always CHARGE a battery, or jumper it to a charged battery with a working alternator.  Don't make the alternator on the dead vehicle do all the work.
Bruno2 wrote
We need to do an exhaust manifold...
The captions in this album may interest you, and save you some time & effort:

Walk softly and carry a BIG SIX!!!
https://www.supermotors.net/registry/2742#album
Memphis, TN, USA, Earth, Milky Way