1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

sgauvry
Just an update -

Went to remove the injectors from my project 5.0.  For those that don't know, the plenum covers the passenger side injectors and must be removed to get to them. Thank you, Ford engineers!

While removing the fuel rail, I dropped a screw right into the intake.  I am not sure which chamber of the intake manifold it went into, but am relatively sure it was either the second or third from the back end of the engine.  That will mean the screw is in either the passenger side head or driver-side head.  

Removed the passenger side head.  Closely examined each valve chamber.  No screw to be found.  Ugh!

Will remove the driver-side head tomorrow.  Hopefully, I'll find that screw (where else could it possibly be?).

Once I get the heads back on and all is reassembled, I'll get back to the original issue of no start - possibly too much fuel and wrong injectors and lack of compression due to remanufactured engine not having opportunity for piston rings to seal adequately to the cylinder walls (I hope), and/or computer/wiring glitch.

Have a GREAT week, ya'll!
Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI
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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Man, does that bring back memories!  My 1958 Impala had a 348 w/a WCFB (Will Carter Four Barrel).  I had removed the tab that kept the secondaries from coming in until WOT, and it was laying on the intake manifold.  One day I flooded the engine so I propped the choke open with that tab.  Got in and stupidly floored it - which opened the choke completely, just as the linkage was designed to do.  That dropped the aluminum tab into the intake and into a cylinder, just as the engine started.  Thunk, thunk, thunk......  In my case it was obvious which side the tab was on due to the thunks, so I pulled the intake and that head just to get the tab out.  

Anyway, just think of this as practice.  You'll have the job of installing heads and intakes down pat, so this round will be even better.  And, I'll bet when that new engine breaks in it'll be sealed up quite nicely.  

Good luck, and keep us posted!
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

sgauvry
Update -

Pulled passenger side head. No screw. Pulled driver side head. There it was!

Reassembled heads and cranked engine without plugs for one minute.  Compression reached 130 on 5/8 cylinders.  I did not check 3 of the cylinders due to location and the difficulty factor of getting the compression hose/fitting screwed into the spark plug holes.  I know I should have tried harder, but based on the readings of the other 5 cylinders and this being a new engine, I got lazy and made an assumption they are good as well. Should I have made that assumption?  Probably not.

I'm working on cleaning up the fuel rail I received.  Once injectors are in and the rail is in place, I'll reassemble the peripherals (alternator, thermactor pump, etc.) and try to start her up.  
Hopefully, sometime Saturday, I'll have good news.  

Am feeling better about the potential for starting.  
Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI
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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
That's good news!  And I don't think you were lazy.  I suspect that all of the cylinders would have come up to 130 if you'd tested them.  But, after running the engine for 1,000 miles or so they'll be even higher.

And, you should be feeling good.  It is going to go well.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

sgauvry
Was hoping to have the truck running by now, but decided that due to flooding the engine with fuel, I will be changing the oil before making any attempts at starting the engine.  I'm using Lucas Oil, break-in oil with zinc and can't buy that around here.  Ordered it online and should be here in a few days.  

In the meantime, I've got two questions about gauges.  I am considering replacing my dash cluster with electric gauges.  The speedometer will remain mechanical, but battery, water temp, oil pressure, tach, and fuel will be electric.

1. Will the sensors I now have work, or will those have to be replaced in order to get a reading on the aftermarket gauges?  

2. Will making this change affect operation?

Thanks!

Steve
Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI
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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
The senders have to be matched to the gauges, so buy the senders with the gauges.  Or, there's an adapter device that converts, but that will cost a lot more than new senders.

As for the operation, there will be no change.  The gauges don't have to work for everything else to work fine.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

sgauvry
Thanks, Gary!
Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI
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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Steve - I thought I saw a post on here asking questions about the TPS, but I can't find it to answer.  Did I miss something?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

85lebaront2
Administrator
MP470 asked about it and I posted a bunch of values in the thread.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

sgauvry
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Sorry Gary -

I made a mistake in the values I reported and deleted the thread as it appeared no one responded to it.
Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI
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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

sgauvry
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Gents -

With a squirt of gas into the throttle and the fuel relay disconnected, I can start the vehicle.  Once started I reconnect the fuel relay.  After a quick moment, the fuel kicks in and she runs pretty good.  I can run it indefinitely at that point and have run it for as long as 8 minutes before turning it off.

When I first did this process as described above, and went to start it up again, it started without any special intervention of fuel squirts or disconnecting the fuel relay.  In fact, it started right up 6 different times.  

Now, however, it won't do that.  I have to jump it to my other truck, disconnect the fuel relay, squirt fuel into the throttle, and start it reconnecting the fuel relay once it starts.  Like before, it will run as long as I want it to once  the fuel relay is connected.  But it is impossible to start at this point without going through the process.  

I did not yet check to see if the plugs are wet when trying to start it with the fuel relay plugged in.  I know I must do this step to see if the system is flooding.  

At least we know it will run.  Any suggestions?
Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI
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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
If you have to jump it to the other truck then the battery must be low. I would check to see if the alternator is charging as a low battery may be causing a problem. Perhaps the Computer is losing its memory?
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

sgauvry
Hi Gary -

Yeah.  Ran some tests and discovered I have a bad voltage regulator. I also burned out the starter too after so many attempts to start it on a low battery.  Also blew out the check valve on my external fuel pump.  

Have new parts arriving soon.  Once new parts are installed, I'll again focus on the problem(s) with fuel delivery.  

Fully expected to be doing body work by now. Way behind schedule. That's how it goes, sometimes!

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI
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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Glad you found it.  Bummer about the damage to the parts though.  Hope it comes together quickly now.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

sgauvry
Gary -

What would cause the starter gear to stay engage while the engine is running, and thereby get ground to pieces?  

Steve
Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI
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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

85lebaront2
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The relay on the fender is welded together, best Chinese quality!
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

sgauvry
It is a Bosch, but will replace it with a Motorcraft. Thanks, Bill!
Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI
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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Sorry, late to the party.  But Bill is right.

However, you may want to make sure that your connections are good.  Low voltage causes the starter to drag and that pulls more current.  So check all the connections.



Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

85lebaront2
Administrator
In reply to this post by sgauvry
Steve, do yourself a favor and get a later PMGR starter, it draws less power and cranks faster.
Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

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Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Brilliant idea.  Ford went to them later for the small blocks, and they not only take less power to crank but also have a built-in relay.  So you wind up using the relay on the fender to pull in the relay in the starter, and the fender-mounted one lasts forever.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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