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1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

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sgauvry

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Hi Ray -

I'll be checking the size of the injectors once the weather clears. Raining cats and dogs for the next few days (and possibly a little snow tonight)!

I do not believe they are leaking at all, but I can check that again when I go to pull them.

Also confusing is that these are the same injectors I used on my old engine, and they worked just fine. Something is not adding up.

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

sgauvry

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Thanks, Bill! I will do these tests once the weather clears. We've got lots of rain forcasted here today and tomorrow, and even some snow tonight. Hopefully, I can get to this on Wednesday.

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

NotEnoughTrucks

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

In reply to this post by sgauvry

If you had them running on your old engine, they must at least be close!

I agree, something does not add up?

I recall something about using a test light to check for injector pulses. Is my memory correct? Any chance you have a set of those "noid lights" that plug into the injector connector to test for pulses? Pretty much grasping at straws here.

sgauvry

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Hello Gents!

Pulled an injector this morning prior to running any tests.

The injector reads 24 lb/hr. Me thinks way too much for my 302.

Not sure why my old engine ran, but I can say that I know I was leaking fuel through the fuel lines. Possibly, the leaking fuel relieved some of that pressure?

Fuel lines are now repaired and possibly, the injectors are working as they should but are now flooding the engine because of too much fuel. Thoughts?

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

sgauvry

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

In reply to this post by 85lebaront2

Good morning, Bill!

I performed the tests you recommended. Here are the results:

Test one - Unplugged injector harness and turned key to on position. Although fuel rail filled with fuel, injectors did not spray fuel. Passed.

Test two - Connected injector harness and put key to on position. Injectors shot a single spray of fuel. Passed.

I think we can say the injectors (24 lb/hr) are putting forth too much fuel.

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

vjsimone

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

I wasn't aware that when you turned the key to ON, that the injectors fired once. ?

Vinny... "Do All Scheduled Maintenance Prior To Troubleshooting" "Resolve All Known Issues Prior To Troubleshooting"

Gary Lewis

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Administrator

Nor I, Vinny, nor I.

Steve - I'm having a hard time believing that the injectors are too big. But it appears that way from the testing. And your theory that they weren't being given full pressure may be the key. Is there any way to turn your pressure down in order to test?

I'm wondering if it is a case of the computer, because it was unplugged for a considerable period, having defaulted to a preset value of injector pulse width that is too long for those injectors. But, if the engine were able to be run for a bit then it might figure that out and reduce the pulse width.

I don't know how the computer's pre-sets work, but I'm just thinking.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

85lebaront2

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Administrator

Yes, the injectors are too large for the computer's programming, it is set for 19#/hr injectors, 24#/hr are 126% of the size expected.

I do not recall seeing a single shot of fuel at the initial "key on" on any EFI system. Every one I have worked on requires some form of "engine is turning" signal. On the Ford truck systems we are dealing with it is the PIP signal from the distributor.

One more item to try, unplug the red/blue wire from the starter relay and repeat, only turn the key to "start" and see if the injectors spray without the engine actually turning.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

"Getting old is inevitable, growing up is optional" Darth Vader 1986 F350 460 converted to MAF/SEFI, E4OD 12X3 1/2 rear brakes, traction loc 3:55 gear, 160 amp 3G alternator Wife's 2011 Flex Limited Daily Driver 2009 Flex Limited with factory tow package Project car 1986 Chrysler LeBaron convertible 2.2L Turbo II, modified A413

vjsimone

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

If the Key On squirt is not normal, then what other inconsistencies is the ECA providing?

I do believe the Cranking Strategy provides the richest mixture, then less rich during Cold Start strategy.

So, if his injectors are oversized, he could be so rich that the fuel will not ignite. I believe that is what his previous testing showed by removing the fuel supply from the equation.

Another Shade Tree test he could perform is to leave the Drivers side Injectors electrically disconnected during a test, this will cut back the fuel delivery somewhat. But I don't remember if the lower intake is compartmented for each cylinder, if so, some will flood, and some will starve.

Or, put a 2K resistor in the ECT connector to fool the ECA that the engine is warm. This will apply the Warm Start Strategy, which should equate to a normal running mixture.

He will have to replace the injectors eventually.

Vinny... "Do All Scheduled Maintenance Prior To Troubleshooting" "Resolve All Known Issues Prior To Troubleshooting"

Gary Lewis

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Administrator

Those would appear to be the proper size for my 460 in Big Blue!

I'm not sure what injectors I want to go with, but yours are big for a 302.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

85lebaront2

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Administrator

Yes, they are the correct factory injectors for an EFI 460.

Bill AKA "LOBO" Profile

Gary Lewis

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Administrator

Steve - How new are those injectors? I'm considering either having the ones I have refurbished or buying new ones, so....

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

sgauvry

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

This post was updated on .

I am happy to send them to you, Gary. All I ask is that you reimburse me for the postage.

Get me your address and I'll send them.

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

Gary Lewis

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Administrator

Steve - I was asking about buying them! I wasn't wanting you to give them to me.

I've sent you an email, so let me know what you want for them. Thanks.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

sgauvry

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Gary - Just paying it forward. My pleasure.

By the way, the injectors have less than 2,000 miles on them.

I can get to the post office on Friday.

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

Gary Lewis

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Administrator

I'm in no hurry, whatsoever! Please take your time, but let me know what I owe you. And, thanks!

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

sgauvry

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

In reply to this post by Gary Lewis

Hi Gents!

Thanks for all of the feedback regarding the fuel issues I've been having.

In the back of my mind, I've been worrying about the compression and Vinny had suggested I do a compression check. I did so this morning and now that I've recovered a tiny bit from the kick in the stomach, I'll share my not very pleasant news.

The compression on 5/8 cylinders ranges anywhere from 60 to 110 but 4 out of 5 cylinders measured in the 60-90 range. I didn't bother testing 3 of the cylinders due to the fact that 5 tested poorly and the other three were difficult to access.

I'll be checking the pushrods tomorrow only on cylinder #5 to be certain valves are opening and closing, and will recheck compression after loosening the rocker arms a bit, but I suspect that test is grasping at straws.

Not sure what I'm going to do next, but at the very least I know I'm looking at ring replacement or worse.

This may have occurred due to my error. Although I ensured the oil pump was in working order and cranked it by use of a power drill until it would not crank anymore, I did not cycle the engine with the plugs out for a few minutes prior to trying to start it. That may have been a costly error. It is likely that the use of ether on 8 different occasions to try to start the engine was harmful to the integrity of the engine also. I know what you are all saying. That's ok. I'm calling myself that too.

Steve

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

Gary Lewis

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Administrator

Steve - Remind me. How many miles on this engine?

I personally wouldn't make any plans w/o doing a leak-down test. I don't trust compression tests. However, low compression test results aren't good. But a leak-down test will pinpoint where the issues are - rings, gaskets, valves, etc.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

sgauvry

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Good recommendation. Thanks.

This engine is a remanufactured engine, so 0 miles.

Steven A. Gauvry - 1985 F150 5.0 EFI

Gary Lewis

Re: 1985.5 F150 5.0 EFI - Problem with fuel through injectors?

Administrator

The rings haven't seated, so you'll have all kinds of blow-by, low compression, etc. I take back the leak-down test suggestion. Proceed to get it running and I'll bet the rings seat.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

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