1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Good progress on the plug wires and fuel line.

As for the engine dying, I'm going to guess it is quite lean.  When you pushed down on the linkage you probably opened the choke and it died.  And since the choke was now partially warm it didn't come on enough to get the engine to start easily.  Feathering the throttle would cause the accelerator pump to squirt fuel into the mix, thereby making it richer.

All of this hinges a bit on the idle air/fuel mix.  If you have it adjusted a bit lean then it really needs the choke to idle until the engine warms up.  And with the engine partially warm the choke won't come back on fully.  So, I'd get the engine warmed up and adjust the idle air/fuel mix to get the best idle, either RPM or vacuum, and then see how it does.  If it is still balky when cold you may need to bring the choke on a bit further.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

JMUBullnose
Alright - back to the reading board for me!!  Thanks Gary.

Question I've been meaning to ask: When the choke is first set and the choke plate is closed - should it be firm up against the air horn or is there a slight gap? My truck usually has the latter...maybe a 1/16" gap in between the choke plate and the air horn.
1984 F-150, 302 CID (5.0 L) Windsor V8, 2 BBL carb, power windows added, remote entry added. AC. Automatic Transmission.
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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Most chokes aren't supposed to be hard against the carb body.  So 1/16" is probably fine.  But Bill may have a dimension - I don't.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

1986F150Six
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Some chokes have a pull-off solenoid, so the choke plate is fully closed at rest. As soon as the engine turns over and creates a little vacuum, the plate is opened slightly.
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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

JMUBullnose
In reply to this post by Gary Lewis
Alright - so I've been attempting to get the choke set back to where it was when I could get the truck to start and idle more reliable (ie - before the fuel filter swap).

I've "played" with the choke housing cap a little to try and get it back to where it was before I started messing with the fuel filter and accidentally bumped it forward. The choke cap is an OEM but non motorcraft one installed by my local shop a couple years ago.

It feels like the choke just isn't setting when I go to start the truck cold. Engine won't kick over for a good 20 seconds unless I bump the accelerator slightly and even then it won't hold an idle just chokes off and dies ~20-30 seconds after start. Even after sitting in the cab and lightly feathering the throttle to keep the RPMs up for a minute or two, the truck died as soon as I put it in gear.

I was eventually able to get going and it restarted fairly easily afterwards since the engine was warm. Not sure what to adjust next - just want to get this back to starting/running reliably! I'm definitely a bit out of my league but want to learn/get it right so I don't have to rely on a shop.

Thanks as always!
1984 F-150, 302 CID (5.0 L) Windsor V8, 2 BBL carb, power windows added, remote entry added. AC. Automatic Transmission.
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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Sorry for the late reply. When you try to start the truck are you depressing the pedal once before you turn the key?  That’s a requirement with a carb or the choke can’t set properly.

Once started then the fast idle linkage comes into play to keep it running. There’s an adjustment for that on the back of the carb, passenger’s side.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

JMUBullnose
Gary - no worries on the timing - I appreciate all the help I can get!

I did press the accelerator once prior to turning the ignition - still took 2 attempts at cranking to start after that.

"What GIS hath wrought, let no man, except management, tear asunder" 
- A. Wise Analyst

On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 10:06 AM, Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry for the late reply. When you try to start the truck are you depressing the pedal once before you turn the key?  That’s a requirement with a carb or the choke can’t set properly.

Once started then the fast idle linkage comes into play to keep it running. There’s an adjustment for that on the back of the carb, passenger’s side.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI



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NAML

1984 F-150, 302 CID (5.0 L) Windsor V8, 2 BBL carb, power windows added, remote entry added. AC. Automatic Transmission.
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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Then check for the accelerator pump working. Pull the air cleaner, look down the throat of the carb, and work the throttle. You should see two streams of gas shoot in. If not, the engine isn’t going to want to run when cold.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

JMUBullnose
So - good news, found a photo I had taken about 2 months ago - so I was able to put the choke back to where it was, albeit a bit rich. Next up is adjusting the idle - it's a bit low. Just glad I was able to get the truck to start rather easily and not have it conk out on me during idle.  The cold start idle is a high as well though.
1984 F-150, 302 CID (5.0 L) Windsor V8, 2 BBL carb, power windows added, remote entry added. AC. Automatic Transmission.
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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Glad you found the pic.  Sometimes that's all you need - a reminder of what went where.

Good luck!
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

JMUBullnose
Thanks Gary! Still getting some rough performance while driving as well - engine will start to stumble if I let off gas and then re-apply, it then powers through. So not sure what could be causing that. Once I dial in the idle that's my next step...along with the new plugs/wires.


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 12:19 PM, Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Glad you found the pic.  Sometimes that's all you need - a reminder of what went where.

Good luck!
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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To unsubscribe from 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red", click here.
NAML

1984 F-150, 302 CID (5.0 L) Windsor V8, 2 BBL carb, power windows added, remote entry added. AC. Automatic Transmission.
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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Check the accelerator pump.  If it is split or the check ball is stuck the engine will stumble when you apply throttle.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

JMUBullnose
Ahhh - okay. Just had to look it up - that makes sense. That's the next step then! Thanks Gary!


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Check the accelerator pump.  If it is split or the check ball is stuck the engine will stumble when you apply throttle.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/1984-F-150-302-Windsor-2WD-Old-Red-tp8076p11723.html
To unsubscribe from 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red", click here.
NAML

1984 F-150, 302 CID (5.0 L) Windsor V8, 2 BBL carb, power windows added, remote entry added. AC. Automatic Transmission.
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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Just pull the air cleaner, climb up on top of the engine, and look down the carb while opening the throttle briskly.  With the engine off, I should say.  You should see two streams of gas squirt down the throats of the carb if the accelerator pump is working.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

JMUBullnose
Funny enough - found a great reference on how to do an accelerator pump test:
Accelerator Quick Pump Test
1984 F-150, 302 CID (5.0 L) Windsor V8, 2 BBL carb, power windows added, remote entry added. AC. Automatic Transmission.
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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

Gary Lewis
Administrator
That is a good one.  But the warming up bit is questionable in my book.  First, the accelerator pump usually (always?) has its own supply of fuel, so if the accelerator pump doesn't have fuel when the engine is cold there is a problem.  Second, it isn't much fun to kneel on a hot radiator and put your hands on a hot engine.

Anyway, test it and let us know.
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

JMUBullnose
You going to sit there with popcorn if I go the warm engine route?  Hahahaha  (I'd rather do cold engine personally....)

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:
That is a good one.  But the warming up bit is questionable in my book.  First, the accelerator pump usually (always?) has its own supply of fuel, so if the accelerator pump doesn't have fuel when the engine is cold there is a problem.  Second, it isn't much fun to kneel on a hot radiator and put your hands on a hot engine.

Anyway, test it and let us know.
Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/soon-to-be ZF5/3.55's & EEC-V MAF/SEFI



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/1984-F-150-302-Windsor-2WD-Old-Red-tp8076p11732.html
To unsubscribe from 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red", click here.
NAML

1984 F-150, 302 CID (5.0 L) Windsor V8, 2 BBL carb, power windows added, remote entry added. AC. Automatic Transmission.
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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, I'll happily eat popcorn and watch you toast your extremities.  

So far, I've not had a carb fail the cold test unless the accelerator pump was truly bad.  But, it is your call.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

JMUBullnose
Gary - finally got an opportunity to test the accelerator pump. Truck had been sitting a week so there was likely no fuel in the bowl - initial tests had nothing coming out of the nozzles. After a quick start to get the carb pulling gas, I shut the truck down and worked the pump - two solid streams of fuel came out of the nozzles so the accelerator pump seems to be good (as far as I can tell).

I had been doing some other research on tuning the 2150 and came across one tech that suggested looking at the power valve - his exact words were something along the lines of "If you're getting power issues or stumbling going up hills...it could be your power valve."

Thoughts? Next steps? I defer to those wiser than me! I need to do an overall retune on this badboy I think.
1984 F-150, 302 CID (5.0 L) Windsor V8, 2 BBL carb, power windows added, remote entry added. AC. Automatic Transmission.
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Re: 1984 F-150 302 Windsor 2WD - "Old Red"

FuzzFace2
Do you know if your stock power valve (PV) is a single or 2 stage unit?
I had seen it posted (other forum) that someone had a 2 stage in the carb but the rebuild kit came with a single stage.

PV's come in different sizes of HG they work.
To see what size you need you will need to hook up a vacuum gauge to the motor in a way you can see it when driving.

When driving you take the average of vacuum when driving under steady speed. Once you have this reading cut it in half and that is the size PV you want as a good starting place.
Say you are pulling 13 HG half of that is 6.5 and this just happens to be what comes in rebuild kits.
You can go up or down to see what works best for you.

I know on older Holley's if the carb sneezed (back fired thru carb) it would blow out the diaphragm of the PV. New Holley's have a check valve to prevent this.
I am thinking the Motorcraft 2100 & 2150 carbs would also blow out the PV if it sneezed but not 100% sure.
Dave ----
Dave G.
81 F100 flare side 300 six / AA OD / NP435 / 2.75 gear
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1980-Ford-F100?page=1
81 F100 style side 300 six/SROD parts truck -RIP
http://cars.grantskingdom1.com/index.php/1981-Ford-F100
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